He who restraineth???

[kclee4jc]

II Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (Greek-restraineth) will let until he be taken out of the way"

Who is restraining?

What is he restraining?

Where will he be taken to when he is taken out of the way?

[Praxeas]

I never knew "restraineth" was a greek word lol

[houston]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I never knew "restraineth" was a greek word lol

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I never knew "restraineth" was a greek word lol

oh good grief! seriously...anyone got an answer??

[houston]

Bro, why don't you tell us what you think it means?

[kclee4jc]

BC i don't know..

That's why i'm asking lol

I'm sure i'll come up with something, just tryin to get some other's input.

[houston]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

BC i don't know..

That's why i'm asking lol

I'm sure i'll come up with something, just tryin to get some other's input.

Trinitarian eschatology teaches:

1) God the Holy Spirit is going to lift from the earth and then the mythical Antichrist character is going to come on the scene.

OR

2) The church's presence is keeping the same mythical character from appearing on the scene. The character will make his debut after the rapture.

[mfblume]

I posted this some time back...


In 2 Thessalonians 2, we read about a man of sin and son of perdition. A falling away occurs and then this person is revealed. He opposes and exalts himself above all that is of God, and exalts himself in the temple. He proposes that he is God, himself.

For the sake of information and strong consideration let me show what history has stated, as well as witnesses from believers through the centuries as to who the son of perdition may refer to, although we may not agree with everything the following believers wrote or believed in other issues of truth.

Victorinus spoke of the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians and proposed it involved Rome and the wicked one being Nero.

“And after many plagues completed in the world, in the end he says that a beast ascended from the abyss…that is, of the Romans. Moreover that he was in the kingdom of the Romans, and that he was among the Caesars. The Apostle Paul also bears witness, for he says to the Thessalonians: Let him who now restraineth restrain, until he be taken out of the way; and then shall appear the Wicked One, even he whose coming is after the working of Satan, with signs an lying wonders.’ And that they might know that he should come who then was the prince, he adds: ‘He already endeavours after the secret of mischief’ – that is, the mischief which he is about to do he strives to do secretly; but he is not raised up by his own power, nor by that of his father, but by command of God.”

Victorinus, Commentary on the Apocalypse, ad 11:7; Ante-Nicene Fathers, p. 354

Augustine (A.D. 354-430) is even more explicit:

“Some think that these words refer to the Roman empire, and that the apostle Paul did not wish to write more explicitly, lest he should incur a charge of calumny against the Roman empire, in wishing ill to it when men hoped that it was to be everlasting. So in the words: ‘For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work’ he referred to Nero, whose deeds already seemed to be as those of Antichrist.”

Augustine, City of God, XX, xix; cf., Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V, xxv-xxviii; Lactanius, Divine Inst. VII, xxv

J. Stuart Russell wrote these words in the Parousia of Christ,

“At that time Nero was not yet ‘manifested;’ his true character was not discovered; he had not yet succeeded to the Empire. Claudius, his step-father, lived, and stood in the way of the son of Agrippina. But that hindrance was soon removed. In less than a year, probably, after this epistle was received by the Thessalonians, Claudius was ‘taken out of the way,’ a victim to the deadly practice of the infamous Agrippina; her son also, according to Suetonius, being accessory to the deed.”

J. Stuart Russell, The Parousia (1887, London, T. Fisher Unwin; republished 1983, 1999 by Baker Books, Grand Rapids, MI), pp. 182, 183

It is interesting that some Greek scholars have noted that "he who letteth" is the Greek phrase, "ha katechon." And in Latin, this is translated to "qui claudit." Some believe this is a somewhat subtle way of pointing the finger at Claudius Caesar who ruled before Nero, and that when Claudius was removed from office as Caesar, Nero would be revealed. A similar belief is held about the number of the Beast, 666, being the gematriacal equivalent to Neron Keser, or Nero Caesar. It is a historical fact that Claudius held back persecution of the church. He commanded a ruling entitled "religio licita" which disallowed Christian persecution and even banished some Jews from Rome because of their riots against "Chrestus", referring to Christ and Christians. (Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, Claudius, XXV, 4. Cf. Acts 18:2). This means Jews could not persecute the church so long as Claudius remained in power. His wife, Agrippina, poisoned him and her son, Nero, came to power, showing that the one who restrained was removed so the wicked one could be revealed. Nero's wife Poppaea was a Jewish proselyte and brought the Jews back into favour in Rome. The mystery of iniquity, which could be seen as antichristian power of persecution, was then allowed back as Nero became emperor.

Lactantius (A.D. 260-330) wrote:

And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the rue religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple unto the Lord. When Nero heard of those things, and observed that not only in Rome, but in every other place, a great multitude revolted daily from the worship of idols, and , condemning their old ways, went over to the new religion, he, an execrable and pernicious tyrant, sprung forward to raze the heavenly temple and destroy the true faith. He it was who first persecuted the servants of God; he crucified Peter, and slew Paul; nor did he escape with impunity; for God looked on the affliction of His people; and therefore the tyrant, bereaved of authority, and precipitated from the height of empire, suddenly disappeared, and even the a burial-place of that noxious wild beast was nowhere to be seen.

Lactantius, Of the Manner in which the Persecutors Died, Chpt. II; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. VII, p. 302; cf. Divine Institutes, VII, xvii

Chrysostom (A.D. 347 to 407) wrote:

"For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work." He speaks here of Nero... But he did not also wish to point him out plainly: and this not from cowardice, but instructing us not to bring upon ourselves unnecessary enmities, when there is nothing to call for it.

St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on II Thess., Nicene-Post Nicene Fathers, Vol. XXIII

What about the charge of lying wonders? History shows that Nero was hailed in Rome as "Nero the Hercules. Nero the Apollo. Thou August, August! Sacred voice! Eternal one." (Commentary on Apocalypse , Chapter 8, If one calls himself a God, then it stands to reason he claims to perform wonders and supernatural miracles.

[Michael The Disciple]

Nero was the man of sin? When was he revealed in the temple of God showing himself as God? And if this took place 2000 years ago what happened to the coming of Jesus? Far out man.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Nero was the man of sin? When was he revealed in the temple of God showing himself as God? And if this took place 2000 years ago what happened to the coming of Jesus? Far out man.

Rev. Blume is a Partial Preterist. While I'm not sure of your eschatology, I'm guessing you're not. That means, what of you "perfect" saints are teaching an error (if not both of you). lol

So much for "perfection".