Deceitfully Handling the Word of God

[KeptByTheWord]

II Cor. 4
3 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Reading in II Cor. this morning, and as I read this chapter, my heart was quickened, and I listened to the meaning of what I read. Hence, I am posting this thread for all to read and know what deception can mean.

In the past few days/weeks several of us on the forum have had interaction with a poster who goes by the name Shazeep (link here for his posts) and in the past bbyrd009. It has become quite clear over the last few days that we are dealing with a gnostic.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Gnosticism is essentially the idea that material reality is illusory and that our goal should be to wake up or become "aware" (gnosis, knowledge) in order to escape to the true reality. This often requires a long process (often many lifetimes).

And here you can see just how this poster shares his thoughts:

Originally Posted by shazeep

nice. "heretical" to the Est'd church is ezackly what i'm after

Originally Posted by shazeep

the problem is this; all you have is talk, and you do not have any Witness, neither do you have any Witnesses. You can only accuse, and you cannot prove. You cannot support a single accusation that you have made at me with a single Witness. You sup at Christ's table, and then go seethe kids in their Mother's milk, thinking to garner the respect of men for this, when you in fact do not even know what the milk is.

Originally Posted by shazeep

Um, It was your Witness, that you are now done with, KeptByTheWord.
And the reason why is plain for all to see; i even replied with the reason, to give you some heads up, some warning.

And it is you that called me here, is it not?

And it is you, that has an ignore button, yet does not seem to wish to ignore, but instead pretend to Authoritay.

With all due respect.

You might trust me on this, K; we are still having fun, right now, ok.
Now, either man up, or shut up, is what i would do, if i were you.
Just sayin'.

Shazeep/bbyrd009 thinks he has some special revelation and insight that he he possesses, and we don't. He dances around from thread to thread claiming he has some "word" that he is seeking, and we need to seek it too. Only when questioned about it, he does not know what it is, and turns to play the accuser now that he we are interacting with him. And then proceeds to turn every scripture into a reference of something deeper that he knows and we don't - but when pressed as to what exactly it is, he turns into the accuser and reviler mode again. Discussion with him is like trying to grasp the tongue of a snake. He acts friendly and wants to dialogue, but then when you do interact, he turns into a snake, biting, accusing, reviling "go suck eggs" one of the last accusations he thrust at us.

This behavior can be seen on every thread he has participated in, which is just about every one.

The truth is, Shaz does not have a love for the TRUTH who is Jesus - and is only here to deceive, torment, mock and accuse anyone who interacts with him.

He does not even try to use biblical symbols that are established in scripture, and seeks only to question, divide and accuse.

Be aware that if you interact with him, that in his reality nothing is as it seems to be, all is an illusion, and in his mind - his world, his answers, his thoughts are the only right ones, and he has set himself up as the judge in the courtroom of his mind to cross-examine "witnesses".

Originally Posted by shazeep

that is because you have none, as has been amply demonstrated to anyone with eyes. You do not even know what the Word is yet, but your implication is that you do, and you have no Witness for this, not a single one.
Do you know what "seething a kid in its mother's milk" means, MB?

being as how i already am assured that you have no Witnesses for me to cross-examine...

Scriptures mean nothing to him, which we have brought forward as "witnesses", and then he cries foul, and starts throwing "eggs" again.

Shazeep is a gnotistic in the truest sense of the word, seeking knowledge, but not from the WORD but from the illogical reality of his mind.

II Cor. 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

It was of necessity this morning to expose the deceitful handling of the Word of God that anyone in the forum can see and judge with their own eyes.

[mfblume]

As I quoted elsewhere, Peter said Paul's letters were being wrested to people's own destruction. No man's words would bring destruction to us if we wrested them. And Peter said people do the same thing with OTHER SCRIPTURES, putting Paul's letters on the level as Isaiah's prophecy, for example. So, they're God's word.

Acts records apostles telling people how to be saved. Acts is THE ONLY book in the entire bible telling us actual verbatim sermons the apostles preached to sinners about how to be saved.

Despite what people say, the epistles DO NOT teach salvation to sinners. Peter told them to GROW IN GRACE, meaning they were on the foundation of the apostle's teachings and were to grow FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

But Acts being the source for the salvation message, and how we realize that, is an example of how people can wrest of scripture away from that sort of truth. People say the epistles teach salvation such as Romans 10 where we believe and confess and we're saved. That's silly. When you read apostles telling sinners who to be saved, and apostles writing to Christians already saved about how to grow, and both refer to salvation, which words are going to show the most details of how a person should be saved?

We have Christ teaching things the apostles expounded upon. That is the WORD OF GOD we are dealing with. And as our sister noted, people handle that deceitfully and make others think IT IS NOT the word of God. And as she pointed out, gnosticism has some elusive WORD OF GOD that is not written down, and one has to have some special awareness not everyone can have. So if the bible is not the word, then what is the word? Something not written down? Something that cannot be written down? Nonsense.

NEXT WITNESS:

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

[KeptByTheWord]

An excellently written confirmation that the Word we have can stand the test of time!

Another thought on the matter is this. Any book written by one author can make statements and claims, and perhaps draw on and rely on other material to support itself. Think - Koran for one.

But there has never been another book of BOOKS written in the manner of the Word of God that we have today where every single 66 books complements and parallels and teaches the same principles that all connect all 66 books together, while written by different authors, and span 6000 years of time, and still, stands the test of time.

Jesus is the Word, and His WORDS have been recorded by many witnesses, compiled into one book of BOOKS, and it is a foundation that we can stand securely upon.

NO OTHER BOOK of books in history can make this claim. The Word we have stands separate and apart from all other pieces of literature in this fashion.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Acts records apostles telling people how to be saved. Acts is THE ONLY book in the entire bible telling us actual verbatim sermons the apostles preached to sinners about how to be saved.

This is an excellent point.

[shazeep]

ya, except you cannot even define saved to mutual satisfaction, either, it is like trying to define Word, or Gospel, huh.

funny thing is, one might could say that "all you got is air;" except air is actually the only thing you lack, now, hmm. words are funny like that, huh. you guys are fine, just like you are, ok? there is no condemnation. just jump, now. trust. you trust God already, c'mon. you got plenty of root, now. go make a tree now. go walk through that front door. don't even say goodbye, you'll be back. well, you won't be you any more, then, but never mind that part right now. at least you will own the Book then, like you want. when you get Word, Book resolves. all those difficult/impossible passages make sense. find a Sikh or something, maybe, when you leave town. someone seeking God, obviously, but not your way. anybody.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

II Cor. 4
3 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Reading in II Cor. this morning, and as I read this chapter, my heart was quickened, and I listened to the meaning of what I read. Hence, I am posting this thread for all to read and know what deception can mean.

In the past few days/weeks several of us on the forum have had interaction with a poster who goes by the name Shazeep (link here for his posts) and in the past bbyrd009. It has become quite clear over the last few days that we are dealing with a gnostic.



And here you can see just how this poster shares his thoughts:








Shazeep/bbyrd009 thinks he has some special revelation and insight that he he possesses, and we don't. He dances around from thread to thread claiming he has some "word" that he is seeking, and we need to seek it too. Only when questioned about it, he does not know what it is, and turns to play the accuser now that he we are interacting with him. And then proceeds to turn every scripture into a reference of something deeper that he knows and we don't - but when pressed as to what exactly it is, he turns into the accuser and reviler mode again. Discussion with him is like trying to grasp the tongue of a snake. He acts friendly and wants to dialogue, but then when you do interact, he turns into a snake, biting, accusing, reviling "go suck eggs" one of the last accusations he thrust at us.

This behavior can be seen on every thread he has participated in, which is just about every one.

The truth is, Shaz does not have a love for the TRUTH who is Jesus - and is only here to deceive, torment, mock and accuse anyone who interacts with him.

He does not even try to use biblical symbols that are established in scripture, and seeks only to question, divide and accuse.

Be aware that if you interact with him, that in his reality nothing is as it seems to be, all is an illusion, and in his mind - his world, his answers, his thoughts are the only right ones, and he has set himself up as the judge in the courtroom of his mind to cross-examine "witnesses".



Scriptures mean nothing to him, which we have brought forward as "witnesses", and then he cries foul, and starts throwing "eggs" again.

Shazeep is a gnotistic in the truest sense of the word, seeking knowledge, but not from the WORD but from the illogical reality of his mind.

II Cor. 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

It was of necessity this morning to expose the deceitful handling of the Word of God that anyone in the forum can see and judge with their own eyes.

a big amen to all this, K, ty.

Oh, but i have found the Word, i'm not in the dark there anymore, so "Only when questioned about it, he does not know what it is" is not true, is it? i have plainly said what Word is; God, Christ, Gospel, etc. there is no puzzle, until we come here, then the puzzle starts, K.

Course, i am still seeking It, but i have also found It; just like Paul, and David Byrne, and whoever wrote Delta Dawn, and millions, prolly, of others. ok well, thousands. maybe hundreds? dunno.

which would you rather be, i wonder, an Apostate, or a Heretic?

and do i even need to rebut this "go suck eggs," i mean, you started ordering me around first, huh; "go suck eggs" is not an accusation, it is an invitation to enjoy your Easter, K, given in the same spirit that you thought was just fine when you did it. so i get frustrated sometimes, i'm still human. and you're still an apostate, who disconnects "those who ate and drank at His table" with yourself. but i understand, ok.

and, do i even need to rebut this "Gnostic" thing? are you going to suggest that i cannot defend my position, here, "if you interact with him, that in his reality nothing is as it seems to be, all is an illusion," and that you can somehow defend Easter, Rapture, and Mansions in the Sky? is that really what you are trying to say here, K. really. c'mon. really.

So, @ "Deceitfully Handling the Word of God," i'd just like to ask, once again, what is wrong with this big, fat heresy, staring you right in the face, K:

IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE BIBLE, AND THE BIBLE WAS WITH GOD, AND THE BIBLE WAS GOD.

ok, have a nice day, my dear, and i pray that you follow Paul, and give up that Mansion in the Sky, and find that Breath, ok, that Word, that Gospel, that we say we have 4 of, and then generate a quarter million hits on google for "What is the Gospel?"


peace.

[KeptByTheWord]

Praying for you Shaz.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ya, except you cannot even define saved to mutual satisfaction, either, it is like trying to define Word, or Gospel, huh.

funny thing is, one might could say that "all you got is air;" except air is actually the only thing you lack, now, hmm. words are funny like that, huh. you guys are fine, just like you are, ok? there is no condemnation. just jump, now. trust. you trust God already, c'mon. you got plenty of root, now. go make a tree now. go walk through that front door. don't even say goodbye, you'll be back. well, you won't be you any more, then, but never mind that part right now. at least you will own the Book then, like you want. when you get Word, Book resolves. all those difficult/impossible passages make sense. find a Sikh or something, maybe, when you leave town. someone seeking God, obviously, but not your way. anybody.
a big amen to all this, K, ty.

Oh, but i have found the Word, i'm not in the dark there anymore, so "Only when questioned about it, he does not know what it is" is not true, is it? i have plainly said what Word is; God, Christ, Gospel, etc. there is no puzzle, until we come here, then the puzzle starts, K.

Course, i am still seeking It, but i have also found It; just like Paul, and David Byrne, and whoever wrote Delta Dawn, and millions, prolly, of others. ok well, thousands. maybe hundreds? dunno.

which would you rather be, i wonder, an Apostate, or a Heretic?

and do i even need to rebut this "go suck eggs," i mean, you started ordering me around first, huh; "go suck eggs" is not an accusation, it is an invitation to enjoy your Easter, K, given in the same spirit that you thought was just fine when you did it. so i get frustrated sometimes, i'm still human. and you're still an apostate, who disconnects "those who ate and drank at His table" with yourself. but i understand, ok.

and, do i even need to rebut this "Gnostic" thing? are you going to suggest that i cannot defend my position, here, "if you interact with him, that in his reality nothing is as it seems to be, all is an illusion," and that you can somehow defend Easter, Rapture, and Mansions in the Sky? is that really what you are trying to say here, K. really. c'mon. really.

So, @ "Deceitfully Handling the Word of God," i'd just like to ask, once again, what is wrong with this big, fat heresy, staring you right in the face, K:

IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE BIBLE, AND THE BIBLE WAS WITH GOD, AND THE BIBLE WAS GOD.

ok, have a nice day, my dear, and i pray that you follow Paul, and give up that Mansion in the Sky, and find that Breath, ok, that Word, that Gospel, that we say we have 4 of, and then generate a quarter million hits on google for "What is the Gospel?"


peace.

Shaz was kicking at the pricks, because he rejected the work of the cross.

Phil. 3:18-19
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

He believes that anyone can be saved just by believing, and that the work of the cross is not necessary in their lives.

His mantra scripture was the Nehushtan found in II Kings 18:4

3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

The serpent on the pole once was used to save and heal Israel, but when they turned it into an idol, and began burning incense to it, Hezekiah burnt the serpent on the pole, and called it Nehushtan.

Shaz reasoned that since the journey of a believer can be demonstrated in the walk of the children of Israel out of Egypt, this somehow means that the cross is no longer effective.

Where his reasoning erred, (and Bro. Blume and I endeavored to show him this), was that the people had made the serpent on a pole (or the symbol of the cross), into an idol, and began to worship it, and that idol worship was what God condemned, not the serpent on the pole, and not the cross.

We do not glory in the cross itself, but in the work that the cross wrought for us. The cross alone holds no power, but it is what happened at the cross that matters.

However, he could not be convinced otherwise, and this became quite obvious, as he chose to lash out, particularly at me with awful words, because his "concept" had been proven wrong, and he was furious, and would not accept it.

Just a concise explanation for anyone who may be wondering what took place in these threads.