[DaveC519]

Hello Aquila,

Thank you for your response.

I'm sorry to hear of your negative church experience. I hope you have found a church which meets your needs.

I don’t disagree, but I do see it a bit differently. Yes, the #1 problem facing marriage today is “individual needs” being asserted over “couples needs”. But why is this? Why does one partner suddenly begin asserting their needs over “couples needs”? I believe that when an individual’s needs (spiritual, emotional, physical) aren’t being met they can only go on so long before something breaks. Sadly, too many couples discover the unmet needs after they’ve festered and evolved into terrible conditions and/or circumstances. I don’t believe that in marriage we suddenly deny our individuality and become clones of one another. I also don’t believe that our individual needs suddenly become sinful and all must be sacrificed for the couple’s needs. In fact, I believe that there must be a balance. Neither one’s individual needs nor the needs of the couple should be neglected at the expense of the other. To neglect individual needs for the needs of the couple or to neglect the couple’s needs for the needs of the individual is a recipe for disaster.

I agree that couples are comprised of individuals, and individuals have individual needs. You'll notice, though, that my original point was that the #1 problem facing marriage today is that of individual needs being asserted OVER couple needs. Perhaps I should elaborate. When one of the marriage partners asserts their need at the expense and/or detriment of the other, then this is damaging. I'll bring this point out in response to your other comments below. So while I agree it is both okay and healthy for a partner to meet their own needs (caveat: depending on what the need is), I don't agree it should be at the expense of their partner. I believe that, in the long run, sexual self-gratification is one such example of a partner meeting their own "need" at the expense of the other.

When I was in the Army I was a Medic. I remember one of my first assignments with an Armored Cavalry unit. The tankers and scouts were hard at work out in the field sweating their guts out training. It was my ambulance’s job to supervise the training and responds to any medical emergency. While supervising training we sat in one of the ambulances. This ambulance had a radio, air-conditioning, plenty of water, plenty of food, litters to rest on if we became tired, a couple decks of cards, etc. Yes, we had a quite a few luxuries. I’d monitor those training and I felt kind of guilty. I turned to my sergeant and said, “I feel a little guilty sitting here in the air-conditioning while those soldiers are sweating their guts out.” The sergeant looked at me and said, “Specialist, let’s say you’re one of those guys and you get seriously hurt in training. Do you want a fresh, crisp, cool, calm, and collected medic responding to you….or do you want a tired and sweaty medic responding to you? By taking care of yourself…you’re taking care of them.”

While I think this is a good analogy you've provided, I disagree that this can be applied to sexual self-gratification in the marriage for reasons I've previously stated.

I see where elements of this rings true for marriage. Individuals can’t always neglect their individual needs for the sake of the couple’s needs. I believe this applies to more than physical needs; it can be expanded into one’s spiritual and emotional needs too. Sometimes the individual needs of a person are neglected to the point that they start to spiritually, emotionally, or even physically hurt. It is at this point that they are weak and susceptible to temptations to sin. Take a spouse whose individual emotional needs have been neglected. They meet someone at work who seems to care. They will be more susceptible to falling into an emotional affair, or even a physical affair because their personal emotional needs were neglected. Neglect someone’s spiritual needs and watch as they become spiritually lethargic and backslide.

I would say this is a good example of one partner asserting their needs to the neglect of the other. We must ask why the spouse above did not have their emotional needs met, which have now led them to engage in this particular behavior. I would venture to say it was due to their partner's pattern of behavior which asserted their individual needs above, and to the neglect of, the needs of the spouse. This again points back to my original assertion.

Yes, the unit (the coupling) has needs. But the coupling is comprised of individuals. I’ve seen couples wherein individual needs are denied. All too often it’s not at the expense of the “couple’s needs”, but meeting the entirety of the dominant parties personal needs. We’ve seen this in marriages where mom stayed married to dad through thick and then, abuse and betrayal…and though she’s miserable, strung out on anti-depressants, and life is void of any joy she remains by his side. Almost like a trapped animal. Meanwhile he’s still yelling at her to fetch him another beer while he eats cheese puffs in front of the television. If the individual’s needs are not met…the couple’s needs are not met. It’s like riding a bicycle with one or both tires flat. Imagine a car if you will, it has four tiers. Can you deny the needs of each individual tire and only work on the needs of the engine? No. You need to tend to BOTH the engine and the needs of the individual tires. You need to tend to both their needs as a couple and their needs as individuals.

See above.

That’s too simplistic to me. I agree as far as couples needing to grow together. But what often causes them to grow apart is neglect. When a spouse neglects their partner’s needs that partner will naturally grow towards where those needs can be met. That’s a given. We can argue if it’s right or if it’s wrong…but my point is that it will happen.

You continue to prove my original assertion, though. I agree that couples grow apart due to neglect. Again, the neglect is one partner asserting their needs over and above the needs of the couple. The needs of the couple are that EACH partner's needs are met, not just one.

You said that marriage is a ministry wherein we need to ask “How may I best serve my partner?” While I get your sentiment, I think the wording here illustrates an underlying issue. A spouse shouldn’t have to guess what their partner’s needs are. Both should be in such intimate communication that they voice their needs to one another openly, and each accepts the other unconditionally and seeks to meet the needs revealed. So where you present platitudes, I present a conversation. Both need to ask, “What are your needs and how can I meet them?” And both need to answer, “These are my needs and here’s how you can meet them.” Guessing games rarely work.

I agree with you that good communication is the key, and that one partner shouldn't have to guess the needs of the other. That's why I stressed that both need to ask, "How may I best serve my partner?" When this is asked, the other can and should express their needs.

I don’t separate one’s physical needs in this area from the person. I don’t see these needs or impulses as something to be denied, something filthy, or something unholy that needs to be reined in with marriage providing the only pressure release valve.

I disagree, and I believe Scripture does, as well. Yes, humans have the capacity for sexual desire. Scripture gives us but one option to fulfill this desire: marriage. It does not condone us fulfilling these desires via fornication, adultery, prostitution, homosexuality, beastiality, or self-gratification. Why? Because all of these are selfish expressions. Marriage is the one avenue allowed because it is (or should be) true ministry one to the other.

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