[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

As I say the view I have right now take some of what fp say and pp and kind of work then together. If one see the kingdom of God on earth right now that Jesus has completed the work he set out to do in heaven and has given us the power to change things here on earth Satan has been bound in a sence he has no power other than what we allow him, then is it not concevable to bring to earth the fulfillement of all scripture with out Jesus coming to earth?

Hi GD,

More thoughts for your consideration as you make your way through choices of prophetic scehemes of interpretation...

It is not that Jesus is coming to earth, but rather Jesus is rapturing the church in order for us to obtain immortal bodies since death came by sin and the grave was not mentioned until the curses were made in the Garden. So His coming is not for the sake of enhancing the present spiritual Kingdom. The kingdom will always be spiritual. But it's just that satan must be judged finally as well as sin and death since Adam brought these influences over mankind. The cross has to undo that or else Adam's sin was greater than Jesus' remedy, and that cannot be according to Romans 5.

I fully believe the resurrection and change of the actual physical body is far too plainly indicated in 1 Cor 15 and Phil 3:21 for us to conclude otherwise.

Check out my studies here that contrast what I believe is the error of fp from pp:

http://mikeblume.com/partvfull.htm
http://mikeblume.com/mat24res.htm
http://mikeblume.com/physres.htm
http://mikeblume.com/70adres.htm

And fp's have not been able to answer my questions as follows:

1) Why the personal plural pronouns in Phil 3:20 are limited to the church, showing that the same must be held for that used in verse 21. (Phil 3:21 shows how the same physical changes that happened to Jesus' body in the resurrection will occur with our own physical body, proving the resurrection is physical indeed).

Regarding No. 1, I asked how fp's could insist OUR VILE BODY refers to those of the church AND other people to whom Paul formerly belonged, namely unsaved Israel, since this is the claim they gave for the explanation of Phil 3:21. However, verse 20 limits the personal plural pronouns in context of verses 20 and 21 to the saved people. The reason I referred to the limitation of verse 20 pronouns to saved people is that this shows who is referred to as "OUR" in verse 21 -- ONLY saved people. This disproves fp thought, I believe. And since they are saved people whom Paul speaks of in verse 21, and nothing referred to as a body concerning saved people was "vile" except their mortal physical bodies, OUR VILE BODY cannot refer to anything but the physical body.

Fp's responded generally about Phil 3:21 but not to the particular argument about the personal plural pronouns used in verse 20 and 21 in response to their arguments. The argument stopped with me making this particular point. We discussed Phil 3:21 until I asked them about the personal plural pronouns continuity in verse 20 to 21 and it stopped there with no more responses from them.

2) How the BODY is a container in 2 Cor 5, and that saying the spiritual body is not physical and thereby lose its containing function.

3) Why can we be absent from the body with the Lord if when we physically die we HAVE A SPIRITUAL BODY

3) What Romans 8 means about the creation groans waiting for the redemption of our bodies when sons of God are manifested.

4) Why Jesus "dieth no more, death has no more dominion over Him," in Romans 6 if He has no physical body that can die.

5) Why Romans 6 answers the issue of death in Romans 5 that Adam brought into the world by His sin by having Jesus physically die.

The resurrection of the sinner and saint occur at the same point in time but are two phases in that same time.

1st RESURRECTION IS SALVATION:

John 5:24-29 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (25) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

2nd PHYSICAL BODY RESURRECTION

(28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves [NOT SOME] shall hear his voice, (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It is not a resurrection as FP teaches from graves where the physical body remains in the grave. If we die, our souls leave the body before the body is in the grave. So how could the resurrection be FROM THE GRAVE if the buried physical body is not raised?

Something to consider as well.

Long sentance I know lol It is my contention that when we realize our identity of who we are in Christ and and influince the world the church can change our world and bring the full kingdom of God to earth.

Exactly! I just preached on that last night here at the church.


God bless in your research and study!