Pardon my misquote.
Do you believe Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever?
As stated I believe God is the same and has not changed since the beginning of human history.
Nobody said prayer, fasting, charity and belief in one God was wrong. I don't know you think you we are but we pray, fast, give and believe in one God
As do we. Hence my original reference to parallels. These are the proper actions to assure a path to paradise and I am happy to hear that they are followed. I know that is what you are taught as well, and actually I also know what you are.
You made an assertion and your assertion is false. I don't care what your parallels are, infact you just contradicted yourself by asserting we believe they are all wrong.. You don't know what we are since you just accused us of saying all that was wrong,
It only, perhaps unintentionally, across as being somehow stated as wrong only in it's interpretation as a requirement. You said "we tithe and fast because we want to". That statement implies, again perhaps unintentionally, an arbitrary decision of whether or not to follow these courses of actions. I merely pointed out that in Islam, these are in fact required. For me personally, the intention of giving is to return back to God's work what He is due based on what he has chosen to give to me and my family, and thus what he is owed. The intention in fasting is to put aside physical wants and self-sacrifice as to what God is owed. Sometimes I do not want to do that, and do not feel like doing that, but for me, and I can only speak for myself, the intention is to do it because God is owed it. The actions as taught are the same. In one path, they are defined as choices. In the other path, they are defined as requirements. I happen to choose the more conservative second path.
How would you know? Yes we fear God
I know your side better than you assume I do. I know you do or at least you are taught to. We are taught that God has his due in the above (see #1) and it is irreverent to not follow His requirements. We are taught that irreverence is a bad thing. As are you. So, where does that leave it?
No you don't know my side. This is again your false assertion that we are irreverent or teach we should be irreverent.
I believe that if God lays out a requirement for specific actions, these being regular prayer, fasting, returning a specific portion of personal gain back to His work, and belief in One and only One true God, it is irreverent to Him to pick and choose which of these will be followed. These are my beliefs only and not a shoe to be tried on to see if it fits anyone else.
AGain, how would you know? Yes we DO tithe and give offerings.
I know you do. See #1 reference to parallels. In some churches it is taught as mandatory, as it is in Islam. In some it is not. Islam teaches that is is.
Don't say I know you do when you just asserted we don't! What are you trying to do here? What Islam teaches is irrelevant to me. You made a series of assertions or accusations and now you are contradicting yourself
You seem upset. If something is irrelevent to me what I choose to do is waste no time, resources, or energy on it. Since Islam is irrelevent to you then a suggestion would be to not continue to bring up Islam, teachings of Islam, critical discussions of Islam, and out of context quotes from Islamic texts. It would certainly allow the focus of more time and energy defining and sharing what IS right rather than what is NOT right. I asserted that I know that you do tithe (well some do) but that "doing so because one chooses do do it" rather than doing so because it is required is something I believe to be irreverent.
So far your batting average is not very good
Your veiled sarcasm is noted. Thank you.
It wasn't veiled or sarcasm. You listed a series of assertions or accusations about us that are untrue
0 for 3. Yes our actions DO matter. Are you serious? Are you making this stuff up as you go along?
You said you are saved by faith. I said actions do matter and actions are the basis on what you are judged in the end. Now you say actions do matter. Thank you for the validation.
Being saved by faith does not equal "Your actions do not matter". You clearly don't know who and what you are dealing with
I will further elaborate and share that I never stopped to consider "who and what" I am dealing with either. Whatever that means.
We speak the truth. We never said ALL muslims are anything, but if you certainly aren't ignorant of what goes on in Islamic nations under Islamic law. BTW we don't beat the mess out of our kids or teach others to do the same. Are you somehow justifying beating your kids or wives now?
I was referencing a post of yours referring to Muslims as "wife beaters" and offering example of a text from your own bible which is and has been used by those of christian faith to justify that very thing. Not all of christian faith, but some. As some Muslims do the same. I am not one who does. Probably my southern upbringing.
Quote me saying muslims are wife beaters
You have offered the "refuse to share their bed, and if they continue, beat them.." quote several times on this forum. Deny that or not. If you feel the need to re-ask I will remind you by supplying times and dates if you need them.
I live in an Islamic nation and the laws are Islamic law. I grew up in the South. So, that means, again, you are speaking of things which I actually and personally know and actually and personally have a basis to both make judgements and comparisons. Which, unfortunately, it appears that you do not.
Once again you are making an assertion you have not substantiated
The only assertion that I made is that I am in fact familiar with Islamic laws in Islamic nations, as well as our own. I also make the assertion that it appears to me that you have not actually LIVED in an islamic society. Appears just means appears and is not an assertion of fact.
Obedience is the fruit of true faith. That is what you lack. You have no idea if you will be truly saved or not.
Obedience to God and God's laws has been a requirement since God's words were first put to paper. Following God's law ensures salvation. Failing to do so ensures no salvation.
Are you perfect in following God's laws? Ever once miss the mark?
Without question.
Required to become saved? Other than confessing Jesus as savior? No, Essential to maintain the very faith that saves us? Yes. Yes Jesus taught on prayer and that is what we do. We do it for many reasons, as I have said before. One of which is to keep our faith in Him strong and healthy. We don't chant phrases over and over like some mindless zombie either. We pray from the heart because we have a real relationship with Him
One does not "become saved". One is required to spend one's entire life, every day, following the words and teachings of God's words. Nobody I know or have ever heard of chants words like mindless zombies when praying. Do you have a specific example? Otherwise the attempt at insult is noted and passed.
Yes one DOES become saved. I hope someday you will experience this. When you pray, do you recite the same words over and over along side your muslim brethren?
During the formal prayer I do. In my case in (2) languages lol.
You don't have a clue do you? You've wadded into a something that you have no idea of.
I suspect that I do have a clue. As I know both sides.
You clearly don't know both sides. This is evidenced by your list of false assertions about prayer and tithes etc etc
The only assertion I made from the beginning is that both are required for salvation.
We believe it and do it out of love. Your motive is fear.
I follow this way because I believe it is the right way and choose to follow it. Qualifies as faith under the definition of faith.
I follow this way because it has freed me. It has given me life here and now. I have a loving relationship with my creator and God has forgiven me of all my sins because of His goodness, not my own.
There is no, none, halas, over, done, salvation for anyone without the mercy of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
It would be nice next time if you could separate the post by quotes and response so I can just hit the quote button and answer
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That would be too easy lol