[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

...but to think that America won all these wars without serving the national interest is naive and delusional...

Do you know what delusional means, because if you do, it is better applied to your take on history.

Going to war "in the national interest" is something far different than the description you gave earlier that we are looking out for #1 and that we are selfish. Certainly much of what we do and have done is in the national interest. In fact, when it is not, I don't usually support what the government does.

We rebuilt Europe and contained communism while looking out for the interests of capitalism and multinational corporations.

We rebuilt Europe because we understood that in order to turn our enemies into our friends, we would rebuild their nations and allow them to experience liberty for the first time in their lives. We could show them a better way to exist versus imperialism and colonialism. Their histories were full of "command and conquer". When they defeated enemies their actions in victory only further deepend the hatred between their nations that set the stage for conflict decades later. We, on the other hand, have Germany, Japan, and Italy as friends. We were smart enough to know that winning the war was only part of the equation. We had to win in peacetime as well. We acted in the interests of both ourselves and other nations. Its called being wise, not selfish or greedy or self-serving or looking out for #1 or for so-called "multi-national corporations".

If we are so superior, why did we wipe out native American indians?Manifest destiny. Why did we enslave africans? Economic and racist interests. Why did we bomb vietnam to smithereens. Military industrial complex.

We are not without our blemishes. But the American dream and vision has proven to be superior to any nation on earth. We have done far above and beyond what just about any other nation has done to repay for our sins. The Native Americans have been given billions and billions of dollars, vauable and large tracts of land, they don't pay taxes and they govern themselves.

Slavery was wrong and our nation went to war over it and secured the liberties that the descendants of slaves enjoy today insomuch that there are black millionaires and billionaires, doctors, lawyers, businessmen and women, professors, inventors, scientists, CEOs, Congressmen and women, and now a President. Hundreds of thousands died in the Civil War to secure today's reality. It hasn't been without a struggle since, but ultimately, in time, the descendants of slaves are far better off here in America than had they stayed in Africa.

Vietnam was doomed to failure, not because of military industrial complex, it was doomed because a Democrat president raised the stakes without a strategy to win. Political survival dictated military strategy rather than the commanders on the field. Vitenam became a political football with LBJ to blame for its demise. We could've and should've won that war easily. We had a commander in chief who was corrupt.

We did not fight all these wars because we wanted the freedom of the people, we are looking out for our own national and economic interests. How else do you explain the support of military dictatorships in Greece, Argentina, Cuba...etc. America has a mixed history, it rises and renews itself every four years there is the hope for renewal and restoration. I agree that it is the greatest nation in the history of the world, but to think that it doesn't serve its own interests is delusional. We still haven't seen the end of the iraq war, but it wasn't to free the iraqi people.

We fought facism because it was right. We fought communism because it was right. We are fighting terrorism because it is right. We have made mistakes, I don't know where you get the idea that I said we were perfect, but in spite of those mistakes, history has proven that our way of life will produce the greatest amount of freedom, the greatest propserity, the greatest innovations and technological advances, medical discoveries, scientific achievements, etc.

Serving our own interests is a far different than being greedy and wicked. We have sought both to preserve our way of life while securing it for others. And where the American dream has found a home, those who benefit from its existence end up appreciating and thanking God for the USA!

Why don't we free Saudi Arabia or Egypt? We went to Iraq for regime change and to place an ally in an oil rich nation instead of a dictator in alliance with Russia. It was because of oil and strategic alliances, not for the people as Bush claims.

Why was Hussein allied with Russia? Because we realized what an unsavory character he was and we distanced ourselves from him after initially embracing him. Again, prove to me where we took advantage of our two victories in Iraq to exploit their oil reserves. You can't because we haven't. The "blood for oil" drumbeat is simply empty left-wing extremist hyperbole that makes for nice placards in protest marches and gives the guy in the bullhorn something to shout, but it does not reflect the truth.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia haven't attacked another nation (as Iraq did Kuwait), Egypt is at peace with Israel, they aren't gassing their own people, they aren't seeking to develop illegal weapons, they aren't murdering their own people to the tune of 300,000, they aren't violating 17 UN Resolutions. They are far from being ideal governments, but they are a far cry from Saddam Hussein's reign of terror.

We attacked Iraq because after 9/11 we could no longer tolerate leaders like SH thumbing his nose at the international community and breaking international laws at every turn. He was given opportunity after opportunity to do the right thing but he continuously played games and lied and deceived and obfuscated. He was given a deadline. He refused to submit. We gave him a second chance when we stopped short of Baghdad in 1991 and agreed to a ceasefire with conditions. He broke those conditions so we proceeded to resume firing. It was to protect us from an unstable Middle East, which would open the door to more terror and threats like we experienced on 9/11. Al Qaeda even admitted that Iraq became the central front in the War after we defeated SH there. Better to fight the war there than here.

In the process, Iraqis are enjoying more freedom now than they ever have in their short history. Poll after poll has been conducted and the people their are overwhelmingly happy that we are there and they don't want us to l;eave until security is better established. History will be kind to GWB and this War on Terror. There's just too many partisan folks in Washington, in the media and in academia to give him credit for a job well done. But mark it down, just as historians later credited Harry Truman for being a great president, GWB will at least be proven a great Commander in Chief when it came to the War on Terror.