[theoldpaths]

Have to reply to this message in 2 or 3 separate posts as my reply is to long for just one post; responses in bold...

Originally Posted by mfblume

And your references to SMOOTH SERMONS, etc., are implying that anyone who disagrees with the harsh unbiblical commandments of such new-doctrine-creators are in error, when that is so far from the truth I cannot begin to describe it.

As stated before holiness and applying holiness principles mentioned in the bible to one's life is not a new doctrine.

In Post 98 you said "Jesus did in Matt 18 give his future leadership the ability to make binding decisions that Jesus himself said that he would back up in heaven.". That regarded the binding and loosing of forgiveness, etc. Matt 18 mentions binding and loosing and gives an example of LOOSING someone from prison and BINDING someone else in prison. He is not speaking of creating doctrines.

The context of binding/loosing was with respect to church discipline when a brother trespasses against another brother and it escalates up to a brother becoming like a heathen and a publican unto the whole church.

Now at some point in this process of church discipline, the leadership gets involved and at some point a decision needs to be made when the situation needs to become before the whole church and whether a brother needs to become as a heathen/publican to the whole church. Who is the one that makes that decision? The leadership.

To reinforce that it is the leadership that decides this, Jesus tells his future leadership that whatsoever they shall bind/loose on earth, He would bind/loose in heaven. And to reinforce it even further, in the very next verse he states...

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Notice in verse 18 that Jesus said "again"; Jesus is reinforcing that in the context of leadership bind/loosing, he said that if they would agree on earth as touching ANYTHING they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Does ANYTHING include include binding/loosing with regards to disfellowshipping? Yes, but ANYTHING also includes ANYTHING other than that as well as long as it doesn't contradict existing scripture.

In Matt 16, Jesus said the following...

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Here Jesus showed that the keys that Peter was going to use to open the door to the kingdom of God was going to be something that he was going to bind/loose on earth, that would be bound/loose in heaven. We understand that the keys, plural, was the plan of salvation that Peter preached in Acts 2:38 to show HOW one could be born again of the water and Spirit to be able to enter into the kingdom of God. Before that time, the door of HOW to be born again of the water and Spirit was locked.

Therefore here we see that bind/loosing had to do with Peter, a leader, declaring something on earth that Jesus would back up in heaven.

Can church leadership only use their authority to make binding decisions regarding disfellowship and that is all? I don't think so.

And in fact we see in Acts 15 a practical example of church leadership coming together to discuss 1 issue and making not just 1 rule about the 1 issue but James creating more than 1 rule, and it being put in writing, and being delivered to be communicated for the whole gentile church to obey. Apparently, the Jewish apostolics were already obeying these things.

Now who gave the apostles and elders the authority to create these new rules for the gentile church? Jesus! Was it because something came up in the church that had never been dealt with before? Yes. Is it possible that there would be other future things that might come up or come flooding in to the church that would require church leadership to have a conference to discuss for the purpose of making a decision? Yes.

Did the issue in Acts 15 have anything to do with forgiveness and church disfellowshipping? Not at all, 1 decision needed to be made about circumcizing the Gentile Christians, but more than 1 rule was created.