Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfast
Let me help you out here, Pelathais. You made it VERY clear that I was a liar in your post. (Hence, by doing that you actually became the personification of what you wrongly accused me of). How you said it isn't as important to me as the fact you did seek to say I was a liar.
You obviously are incabable of saying, "I didn't realize you hadn't seen the questions of someone being gay in this whole process."
You STILL won't admit that I've NEVER slammed the UPC... not remotely or by implication even one time. I said that some of these men feel pushed out. That's a fact. I then went on to describe how I find myself in my own dilemma of having fellowship. That has nothing to do with UPC as my world is much bigger than the UPC.
YOU are the one who tried to connect them all together with your own strange reasoning. I won't take the blame for that. Actually, nothing in your post remotely justified the conclusions you came to.
I tell you what, Pelathais... call me whatever you want to call me. I'm more than glad to let my reputation stand on it's own merit.
Do I enjoy being all but called a liar? No. But, then again, I'm now convinced that you don't have the integrity to say, "Yes, I made a mistake and impugned the character of someone without real cause."
For that reason, I'll let you deal with the opinions of those who find your lack of integrity less than palatable because, frankly, I have no desire to dialogue with anybody who lacks in the simple ability to say, "I shouldn't have fired a shot where it wasnt' merited."
If defamation of another's character is the best tool you have to flex your critical tongue muscles then have at it... surely you can do that without my assistance.
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You seem to want to keep playing the victim card here. Why can't you say, "You know, the way I strung those anecdotes together about shacking up and social drinking being allowed in UPC churches could have been seen as a slam against the UPC?"
You have now taken it so far as to say that I "lack integrity." You have attacked the entire fellowship with your accusations. I have said that your accusations are exaggerated. Then you fold up into a little ball of self pity and attack me for defending the card you carry in your wallet (or keep in your sock drawer, or whatever).
I did not "impugn" your character. You simply over reached in trying to defend the WPF men. That is my perspective. Unfortunately, the real victim was the UPC which you persist in saying allows "shacking up" and "social drinking." I think that's wrong.
But if I am mistaken, show me the cases where "shacking up without backsliding" and "social drinking" is being tolerated within the UPC. I would willingly join you in evangelizing these folks.
I'm not naive. I know there are instances of terrible trangression among us. I resigned my position because of what I perceived to have been tolerance for adultery. I resigned and kept my mouth shut about it. But years later I found out that my silence had actually hurt my DS and put him in a bad situation. I should have gone to him and trusted him, but I honestly failed in keeping that trust. The reason was I thought that I was "supposed" to just keep silent.
But when you tar the fellowship with the "shacking up" and "social drinking" I feel that I should rise and challenge you on that. I certainly don't know the details about every situation everywhere, but I feel that after 30 years I do know the UPC a little bit. There are isolated instances of these types of "issues." They are isolated. The way to keep them from becoming a part of our culture is to speak out against it.
But to justify men splitting the fellowship by indicting the fellowship with "shacking up" and "social drinking" is going too far. If this belief reveals a "lack of integrity" to you then I will wear that badge with honor. My reputation is solid with good men despite years of false accusation.
Unless it came to "blood" I don't think I could be hurt any worse than I aleady know how to heal from. And that includes a little loss of blood along the way.