[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

They certainly are discussed. But why would Paul enter into a discussion comparing long hair and the veil? One is common to all peoples regardless of their location and era. The other is a cultural custom held in different ways by only some nations and times. It is hard to see Paul comparing them when he would know this. They are different topics which only have location on the head in common. Hair is a natural biological feature, given by God for adornment. The veil is given by Man to hide beautiful long hair, to prevent unwanted conflicts and jealousy resulting from unwanted romantic interactions while in public. One is given to look beautiful and the other to cover the first's beauty. These diverse purposes prevent meaningful comparisons with one another.

I agree on both points, saying they covered their heads with a veil while in public. This was a widely held Co societal practise and not just a practice of just the Co Christian. Do you agree?

Yes it does, in my opinion, and said so with a caveat of mine. Paul writes with few words and doesn't give much explanation as to the why he has said what he has said. This has led to the multiple opinions of what exactly Paul means. It could be assumed that he thinks the Co will perfectly understand what he says because they have both lived in the same societal context and are both familiar with what he would mean, even without specifying it by detailed words. He thus doesn't specify why a woman should wear a veil, whether it is for spiritual reasons or for cultural reasons. God cannot be divorced out of any cultural thoughts Paul makes, because God permeates all of life. Therefore when he references the veil, he says of the man, that a covered head dishonours God. The cultural and spiritual are intertwined because God is in everything of life. But for Paul not to show the why with details, is important to people who don't live with his background knowledge of Co society. These people then must decipher the few words that Paul uses, perhaps misapplying thoughts when not having the same background info as the Co/Paul had. What he says could be from a spiritual side or it could be from a societal side or both at once. Jude says, v23, to hate the garment spotted by the flesh. Both culture and spiritual issues are addressed in one statement. When Paul says 'judge among yourselves', or, 'nature teaches' (the natural way their society works) Paul should be seen appealing to their cultural norms, because this idea fits quite well into what is known of Co historically. (see my comments on 'nature' in my commentary: 27ff, 42ff, 69ff, 76ff) As a holder of the veil view, you have taken these Co cultural norms and said Paul turns these cultural norms into spiritual commands. To this I do not agree, because the Bible as a whole hasn't presented such a picture. Any interpretation of a part should fit well into what is seen of the whole. The veil view doesn't. Until Paul's words in 1Co11, misinterpreted as commands, the Bible has not shown a picture of the veil as a commanded covering. Plz quote the commands and I will shut-up. I brazenly say this because I know you cannot quote the commands. Spare yourself and don't waste a lot of time attempting to do so.

True.

Yes, historically and only from a cultural view point. A veil was never OT commanded of Man for these reasons. The OT is the only Word Paul possesses.

(is this a spiritual or cultural interpretation?) To which I, as a holder of the instincts view, would add that long hair also symbolizes that a woman respects her man's likes (men think long hair is beautiful). If she wishes to diss her man, then short hair is one method available to her to use. Thus, long hair symbolizes her respect for her man and for God, who has put the instincts within Man. (Men have a God-given instinct desiring pretty, which women know of. Her God-given instinct, seen in Ge3.16, is to plz her man. Long beautiful hair helps her plz her man's likes - admiring long beautiful hair. Men also have God-given rulership instincts, Ge3.16. God-given instincts, which are in both her and him, are dissed when his woman disses her man. This includes the dissing of his likes of her with long hair. This shows a direct relationship to God's expectation that Man should respect his order of authority, but focussing more on the woman.) This, i believe, is what Paul refers to in 1Co11. This is part of what the instincts view shows.

Paul's words in 1Co11, in my opinion, must be understood both from a spiritual and a cultural view point. Doing so harmonises what he writes, into a view without holes.

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