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Old 09-07-2022, 10:35 AM
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Re: History of Tithes in the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan View Post
1 Corinthians 9:14
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

Live
g2198. ζάω zaō; a primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively): — life(-time), (a-)live(-ly), quick.
AV (143) - live 117, be alive 9, alive 6, quick 4, lively 3, not tr 1, misc 2, vr live 1;

The person who preaches the gospel “should” receive the things that sustain their life.
Like mortgage payments, and vehicle loans, and vacations, and etc.? See, since you make the claim Paul means more than just food, where do you draw the line? And just because you draw the line at a shorter distance than some or even most, who's to say another person can't take that line a couple more miles down the road and say, I need these things to sustain my life?

Or, we could just let Paul's words mean exactly what they mean, and "learn to no go beyond that which is written" (1 Corinthians 4:6), so that no one gets puffed up in favor, one over another.

Quote:
As I have already said, it wasn’t IMO, Paul’s intent for his epistles to be made into regulatory laws that say you can give this, but not that.
So, he just used the words he used, to convey his particular points to his particular audience, and gets very specific with them and refers to an OT context in which only food was given, but here in the 21st century, we get to stretch his words to mean anything we want? That's how it's done?

Quote:
Also this passage doesn’t limit giving to only traveling teachers/evangelists, but to all who minister the gospel.
Where is the word "minister" in 1 Corinthians 9, in the way you mean it, and not according to those who serve at the altar in the temple?

For Paul, a herald of the Gospel didn't park himself in a spot on a platform behind a box week after week after week for the rest of his life while everyone came to him to hear whatever he had to say.

No, for Paul, preaching the Gospel meant travelling from place to place (See Romans 15:19-20 for an example).

1 Corinthians 9:16 (ESV),

Quote:
16 For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!
Preach the Gospel (first use): εὐαγγελίζωμαι (euangelizōmai)

Preach the Gospel (second use): εὐαγγελίσωμαι (euangelisōmai)

Both are verb forms, from the same root, that means "to evangelize".

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/9-16.htm

It's the same word Jesus used (and was used of Him) when He insisted He had to travel to other towns:

Luke 4:43 (ESV),

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43 but he said to them, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns as well; for I was sent for this purpose.”
Luke 8:1 (ESV),

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1 Soon afterward he went on through cities and villages, proclaiming and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God.
It's the same word used of the disciples Jesus sent out:

Luke 9:6 (ESV),

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6 And they departed and went through the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.
It's the word used when the saints fled Jerusalem and went everywhere preaching the Gospel:

Acts 8:4 (ESV),

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4 Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.
It's the same word used of Philip when he travelled to Samaria to preach the Gospel:

Acts 8:12 (ESV),

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12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
I think the point is made. Evangelization requires travel. There may be instances where a temporary stop is made for a little time, and someone preaches the Good News there for that time, as the Spirit leads, but not as a permanent home inside of a building, behind a box with a microphone and sound system paid for with tithes.

Quote:
The saints at Jerusalem sold houses and lands and laid the price at the apostles feet. Obviously, it was money, and it was shared with all poor as well as the apostles. The apostles don’t seem to be any longer fisherman to support themselves, but had become fishers of men. Matter of fact they had forsaken their nets(secular jobs) long before, in order to follow Jesus.
Are you an apostle? Am I? Who then gets the right to forbear work, according to Paul and the example of the Twelve?

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There isn’t any direct NT commandment that institutes exact methodology on giving in the NT.
Yes, there is. You can start with 1 Corinthians 16:2 and go from there.

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The scriptures (old and new testaments) teach many principles about giving, but there is no exact instructions that the church is to follow.
Yes, there is. You can start with 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 and go from there.

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Serving is more important than being served. Hirelings serve for the money, but Gods minister serves because it is his purpose given by God. Take away the money and material things, and nothing would change. The motivation isn’t material.
You cannot differentiate what Jesus said based solely on hidden motives. The word Jesus used means a wage-earner. That's the bottom-line. He didn't speak of motive, only of results: that when the wolves come in, the hireling flees, because he's not the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep.

Give up your salary, and do everything you do for free, and trust God to make up the difference, with another child on the way, and see if you last. Test your own motives.

I know a brother who was taking a salary of $36,000 a year from the church he pastored. He realized his error, repented of it, recanted it publicly, and refused to take a penny from anyone, and God led a local businessman to randomly pick his church out of a phonebook to make a donation of $50,000 to that church, from which, the pastor took not a penny, and God gave him an opportunity to start his own business that allowed him to make over 3X his former salary, while enriching the church so all sorts of needs could be met, like fixing saints' cars, sending missionaries around the world, buying groceries for those in need, and right on down the list, paying people's rent, donating large sums to the injured, and etc.

Through that church, I was able to raise over $7,000.00 with a couple of texts and one in person conversation so a lady I worked with who had been crippled in a car accident wouldn't lose her house, could have her utilities paid for, and have all sorts of other needs met, until her husband could go back to work after a knee surgery which had taken place just a couple of days before her accident (black ice in February in WI on the way to work).

Simply because the people of God there got on board with doing things God's way, exactly, precisely, according to only that which is written, and not beyond.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 09-07-2022 at 11:22 AM.
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