Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
I think this type of terminology is imprecise and may be problematic. Jesus said He came down from heaven. Now, we know this does not mean a divine person OTHER than the One God came down from heaven, nor does it even mean God Himself came DOWN from heaven (since God is omnipresent how does He "come or go" anywhere?). BUT it does mean SOMETHING otherwise Jesus wouldn't have said it.
Jesus coming down from heaven, or "proceeding from the Father", means this Man has a direct Divine origin. He was conceived in the womb of Mary by a creative miracle of God. In that sense, He came forth from the Father. Moreover, He was SENT by God, that is, the Man has a Divine Purpose and mission. In these senses I can certainly understand that Jesus Christ, the Man, "is from the Spirit realm".
As for the phrase "the physical man is deity" I think He is. Thomas saw a man, touched Him, and proclaimed "My Lord AND MY GOD." The Man is physical (of course) and the Man is God. He is God manifested in flesh, He is the Word of Life made flesh. So to say "the physical man is NOT God" doesn't actually make sense to me.
Now, to say His actual skin, muscle, bone, etc are not made of Divine Essence or something, of course that is true. He was made of a woman, son of David according to the flesh. His physical human nature and all its characteristics are not composed out of Divine nature. His humanity is our humanity, dust of the earth (although resurrected, and transformed, immortal). But I'm not sure ANYBODY believes otherwise, except certain gnostics, Mennonites, and Divine Flesh pentecostals.
I think we need to be as specific as possible in these kinds of discussions to avoid misunderstandings.
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I agree with all that you said, seeing that it is a case of termonology.
When I say the physical man is not God I mean humanity is all that this body and soul is and was. I believe Jesus was literal when he told the rich young rule to not call him good because no man is good, only God. Thomas touched the body, but the body was purely human and not deity since the deity is eternal and the body was not.
I think this also touches on an issue I have been concerned with for many oneness people for years, even decades. They distance Jesus' humanity from us and do not see that He relied on the direction and power of the Father as much as we need to. Many oneness people deny that. Jesus as a man genuinely had to learn and grow in wisdom, and learn obedience. He did precisely the things we can and should do when dealing with satan, and did not treat the devil as only God could handle him, and us be unable to in that same manner.
Thomas knew God was in that human being, just as He is now in us. But the difference between us and Jesus is that his very person was God, and I do use that term person because the Bible did, while obviously standing o the greek meaning of the term and not what person have been evolved into apart form that.