[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You are not "saved" until you pass the test as judgment. This is a fallacy of (current) christian teaching. Turning "All Men" into "everyone but us".

And you're the arbiter of what parts of the bible are correct and what are not?

The truth is Jesus Christ stated that belief IN THE SON OF GOD, which your Koran says cannot exist since you believe God cannot have a Son, is what saves us and gives us eternal life. You are living by works as though on a grist mill of never-ending futility that leaves you lost.

The truth is you fell for a lie that rejects the pathway to eternal life that ANYONE cane receive. Thank God many muslims are being converted to the Christian faith. The ridiculous conclusion that Christianity makes people into "everyone but us" is betrayed as nonsense by the very fact that whatever truth is real makes those who believe and accept it to be everyone but us. Your conclusion has no sense.

Whatever it is that YOU believe is truth demands that you have an "everyone else but us" mentality about it. Whatever belief anyone takes as truth makes only those who adhere to it to be "everyone else but us."

Joh 3:14-21 KJV And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I have always said that the bible has been corrupted and have provided columns of examples of this.

On what basis do you know what is corrupt and what is not? On the Koran? What kind of reasoning is that? What makes the Koran not corrupt and the Bible corrupt? What is your standard? You have none. You blindly accept the Koran and make yourself believe it is truth just because you made yourself believe it. you have no standard to judge anything by except your whims.

I proved the bible out like Jesus said to do:

Joh 7:16-17 KJV Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. (17) If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

If you have not tried what the Lord and apostles said, as though the bible was totally incorrupt, you have no right to say what is right or wrong about it. Again, you have no standard to go by.

You ask me about Paul? Just on the issue of Paul's conversion there are three versions, the three versions are contradictory.

Show me ONE. I heard them all, and they are all incorrect and easily explained to show nothing contradicts anything else. I challenge you to show me one contradiction and watch how I debunk your error.

The crucifixion stories are contradictory. The resurrection stories are contradictory.

All empty claims and no proofs. Same old same old.

Prove something for a change.

The entire book has to be taken as one message, what is attributed to God has to be set aside and carefully compared to what one is taught to do and be, and the contradictions weeded out. With that said, wsme of what Paul taught is valid and matches the rest of it, and some is not.

All empty words. No proofs for anything you say.

You seem upset that I do not agree with the teachings of Paul

I could care less if you disagree with Paul. Why this repeated lie about me being upset? Tell the truth. You talk and never prove anything you say.

yet you summarily dismiss Paul's direction for ladies to keep silent in church

I certainly do not dismiss that whatsoever. The context -- which you always miss consistently -- says for women to keep silence and ask their husbands at home. That informs us that women often asked questions about the sermon and were out of order, or else it would not have stated they were to ask their husbands at home. It was not speaking in general. You don't know your stuff about the bible.

and dismiss Paul's direction for ladies to cover their hair (neither of which we dismiss, albeit from our own book) and worse the church criticizes it when Muslims do it,

It is an eastern custom not necessary for our culture, which is why muslims keep it since it is a middle eastern thing. Hello?

In this you dent the teachings of Paul in your own ministry. Since you take yourselves to be under these teachings and claim that you must follow them for salvation and do not follow them is it not a bit hypocritical to capitalize your OMG UTTER SHOCK when e-speaking to me about it? Don't answer, I withdraw the question.

I keep everything the bible teaches.

Your implication that a quiet note (several) to follow Jesus' actions and directions is interpreted as not believing and incorporating what Jesus taught into our religious practices is contradictory in itself. How in the world can you twist "exactly follow Jesus' actions and teachings" into such an accusation?

You are not even making comprehensible sense in that paragraph. Rephrase it.

The first pillar of Islam is belief in One God, not shared, no room for another, no compromise. That statement traces all the way back to "Hear Oh Israel". Implicit in this is that no good works one can do can save anyone because it is required that all good works are done in serving Him, all results of those works attributed to Him. God has always required men to serve Him and attribute everything to Him, not to themselves or to each other. Minus this, I agree with you that deeds are not, in themselves, enough.

Good works required in serving Him is NOT the same as no good works can save us. What a distortion of the Word you make. You make the truth ineffective that says the work we must do for eternal life is BELIEVE. You make the word ineffective that says Abraham's faith was counted to him for righteousness.

Walks, do you believe the TEMPLE OF SOLOMON EVEN EXISTED ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT in Jerusalem where your unclean dome of the rock is?

Now, answer why Jesus said no man comes to the FATHER but by Him.

You ignored these words in another thread:

FROM THE KORAN: The Women, 4.171...

"...believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector."

Bible:

Joh 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


What do you say about this, Walks?

the Koran, Surah 4:157, Women...

"And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure."

Joh 2:22 KJV When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


Walks? What is it with the Koran here?

God told Moses this:

Deu 18:18 KJV I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Walks, do you believe Mohammed is that prophet?


The woman at the well knew the Messiah was that one who would speak all things that God commanded.

Joh 4:25 KJV The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

And Jesus said HE WAS THAT PROPHET!

Joh 4:25-26 KJV The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. (26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Mohammed is NOT that prophet Moses foretold. Jesus is.