[RJR]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

3. There is no time in scripture when women were forbidden to teach, preach or prophecy. God used women in all ages including but not limited to New Testament times. Old Testament Women who prophesied - Miriam - Numbers 26:59, 1Chron 5:29 ; Sarah - Genesis 21:10 cf Galatians 4:30 ; Deborah - Judges 4:4-6, Judges 5:1,7, 12, 13, 31 ; Huldah - 2Kings 22:14-20 ; Noadiah Neh 6:14 Etc. In addition to this the Old Testament forsees the Christian time when daughters would prophecy - Joel 2:28,29. And this in spite of the fact that the world was fallen and that the prediction of Genesis 3:16 had come to pass. Still, God used women. Why, then, should Christian women put interdicted?

The author certainly is not dealing with the prohibition of 1 Cor 14:34-35, or even 1 Tim. 2:11-12. as of this moment, which clearly opposes the above assertion that women were not forbidden to teach or preach. While he attempts to explain it away in the subsequent paragraphs, we will see how accurate it is in the following paragraphs.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

31 Tim 2:1-15

Women forbidden to teach men? Women to keep silence?

1Tim. 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (why would Paul want to limit God's messengers to men only when he wants all the world to be saved?)

What would cause the writer to inject his agenda here? Having all men to be saved is absolutely no proof that a woman preaching is the only hope to accomplish the desire, neither does it mean all men will be saved. Seems God did not feel it was necessary to have a female priest in the OT, or chose a female apostle while here on earth, or give any Biblical prescription for a female bishop or deacon. Was this a divine mistake, Praxeas? Surely with what the author is seeking to establish, God could have better served he church that was in the wilderness with a few female priest?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (Paul is opposing the most radical feminism the world has ever seen. In Ephesus, many women believed that only a woman, because of her position as child-bearer<= could communicate ultimate truth. A woman was the sole interpreter. Many also believed that the woman was the originator of man, that she was the authentic one [authentein]) 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Why does this man bring up, "Paul was opposing the most radical form of feminism the world has ever seen from verse 5?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting (wrathful passion and dialogismos, dispute) .

9 In like manner also, that women (pray with uplifted hands) adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety (modesty and good sense); not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; (women retained one slave to arrange their hair while a second stood by with a whip to lash the unfortunate beautician - Juvenal, p. 75 of Kroeger - Apuleius considered braids seductive. Ostentation in dress was considered a sign of promiscuity in the ancient world)

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness (professing means witnessing) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn (Rabbi's forbid women to learn) in silence (The Rabbinic scholar was required to learn in silence - based upon Zech 2:13, Hab 2:20, Isa. 41:1,, were required to “be still” Ps 46:10. Rabbi Isaac said, “What should be a man's pursuit in this world? He should be silent. Silence was the duty of the learner. Silence and submission is a Near Eastern formula implying willingness to heed and obey instruction. The original appliication is one of attentiveness and receptivity to God. The command that women should learn is marked contrast to the foolish women, 1 tim 3:6,7, who are ever learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Paul would arm women with truth so that they might stand against error. Why would any true proclaimer of the gospel ever restrict who may learn or who might teach. Paul's concerns are for peace, propriety and a knowledge of the truth.) with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

There is no one asserting that a woman cannot learn, neither was Paul saying that a woman could not learn, as a matter of fact he implores her to learn with silence and all submission not exercising authority over the man. However, he just as strongly forbids her to TEACH. This passage says the direct opposite of what this blinded soul asserts. It still reads "I suffer not a woman to teach, NOR to usurp authority over the man," in spite of his weak attempts to explain it away.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (Paul attacks a highly unorthodox myth involving Adam, Eve, and the serpent) 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in (Paul defends feminine functions. dia, - during, throughout, within an attendant circumstance, while still possessing that function that most sets her apart from man) childbearing, if they (they, women and all Christians) continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Did Paul believe that no woman should teach? May this scripture be used to teach a doctrine which is contradicted elsewhere?

Absolutely, Paul not only believed a woman was not to teach NOR to usurp authority over the man as verse 12 clearly implores, but he prohibits it! Also, we will see it is not contradictory as the following will prove.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Women prophesied. It was predicted that they would. Joel 2:28; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, They did! Acts 2:17 your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,...

Paul allowed prophecy from women 1Cor 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Prophecy is speaking to “edification [teaching or building up], exhortation and comfort.” 1Cor. 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Old Testament women prophesied, Deborah, Esther, Jael, Sarah (Genesis 21:The New Testament would not reduce the abilities of women to participate. The New Testament in which women as well as men were filled with the Spirit would not reduce women's opportunitites to participate.

Preaching is not prophesy. In 1 Cor 14 anyone IN the church could prophesy, speak in tongues, pray, sing psalms, have a revelation, yet in verse 34-35, a woman was not to do a certain type of speaking (translated 6 times preach or one of its cognates). Just as a man who spoke in tongues was to be silent in verse 28, if there was no interpreter, however he could speak to God and himself, clearly this man was not prohibited from making any sound, the prohibition was specific. Just as a woman has specific prohibitions as to teaching 1 Tim 2:12, and 1 Cor 14:34.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Women taught under Paul's ministry, Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

The prohibition in 1 Cor 14 was a woman speaking in the church (obviously cross referencing 1 Tim 2) teaching a man. What this writer does not emphasize is Aquila and Priscilla took him unto them, implying they took him aside. This is not Priscilla teaching him in the church a sermon, but rather witnessing along with her husband. A big difference between witnessing and preaching, anyone spirit filled is enabled as a witness, but not every spirit filled person meets the qualifications given for the offices of a deacon, bishop. Can you find one evangelist in the Bible who had a female name?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Cor. 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Even the Old Testament allowed women to learn, Deut. 31:12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

Both Paul and Jesus allowed women to learn, Luke 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

Conclusion: If Paul does not want some women to teach, it is not because they are women, but rather because they are unlearned, incompetent, or are teaching error. If the church should bar all incompetent teachers, it would have to bar men who teach that women should not teach.

Pitiful, this person is still equating learning with being a preacher.