[Esaias]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

This core Christian belief states that all men enter this world with an inherently sinful nature and all men possess an inherent moral corruptness in their own flesh. All men are therefore sinners by nature and apart from redemption through the grace of Christ, are under the curse of the Law, abide under the wrath of God, are by nature children of wrath, are dead in trespasses and sins, do nothing that pleases God, and sin continually against God as a manifestation of the wicked sinful nature in their own hearts.

Now, let us examine these statements a little more closely. If these statements are true, then the following is also true, for they follow necessarily from the quoted premises.

1. God commands men to do what they cannot possibly do. God commands all men to love Him supremely and their neighbor as themselves. The keeping of God's commandments (the various commandments in the bible) are the mechanisms of obeying God in various circumstances. Since men fail to obey God because they have a sin nature, it is necessarily impossible for them to obey God.
2. God condemns men for not doing what they could not possibly do to begin with. Since sinners are damned, and since sinners cannot possibly obey God, men are condemned for not doing the impossible.
3. Babies who are aborted or die in infancy are condemned to hell with no possibility of salvation. since after death is the Judgement, and since babies are born sinners, and since sinners are BY NATURE (not their moral character) are condemned to hell, all babies are condemned from conception. If they die, as babies or infants, they are damned.
3. Sins (the actions of breaking God's commandments) are involuntary and beyond our control. And because they are involuntary, it follows that -
4. Sins do not incur guilt. Guilt is a moral state describing one who has not done what they should have done, or who has done what they should not have done. But it cannot be said one should have done that which is a natural and complete impossibility. Therefore, sins do not incur guilt.
5. Sinners are not guilty of anything. They possess the sin nature, and are therefore damned for hell, but since guilt is incurred by failure to act as one ought to act, and since possessing a sin nature is wholly involuntary and beyond anyone's control, sinners are not actually guilty of anything at all.
6. God damns the innocent. Since sinners are not actually guilty of anything at all, yet are damned for being human, they are innocent of wrongdoing but damned anyway.
7. God creates sinners and is the immediate cause of their damnation. The bible teaches that each of us is fashioned in the womb by God, that he created us each, individually. Since he created us each, individually, personally, with a sin nature, and since he has decided that anyone possessing a sin nature is damned, he has intentionally created us as sinners. God made us sinners. God did it intentionally, since nothing he does is by accident. The only reason we are damned is because we have a sin nature, and the only reason we have a sin nature is because God made us that way.
8. God punishes the children with damnation for the sins of their fathers. Or at least, for the sins of Adam. We did nothing but be born. Adam sinned and damned us all to hell. God damns us all to hell because of what Adam did,. not because of what we do or fail to do
9. Sinners have a just complaint against God. Sinners will stand before God on judgement day and confess 'I did nothing to deserve damnation, I was made this way, I was born this way, and you, God, made me this way.' And God will agree and ........ them anyway. Thus, God is not righteous in his judgements, but arbitrary and capricious.
10. Salvation is not of grace. Grace is undeserved favor. In regards to criminal issues, and court judgements, grace is forgiveness, leniency, pardon, mercy. But no sinner can truly believe salvation is by grace, if damnation is wholly involuntary and is earned by something somebody else did, and not themselves. If I commit a crime, and the court decides to punish YOU for the crime because you are related to me, and then decides to spare you the punishment, you will never believe how gracious and merciful the court was. You will at best be thankful the court chose to act JUSTLY in not punishing the innocent. And thus, you will view your salvation as a matter of JUSTICE and not GRACE.

These are necessary conclusions that result from the premises given in support of 'original sin'. They are as false as they are preposterous.

Some Scriptures are then given to buttress this pagan absurdity called 'original sin', such as:

Genesis 6:5 – “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (See also Gen. 8:21)

The Scripture here emphasises man's wickedness, not that he is wicked because he is man, but because he is wicked, his heart was thoroughly evil. This verse simply describes the moral condition of mankind at the time immediately prior to the Flood, and does not say that mankind has a sin nature.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Noah was not among those who were described in verse 5. Also, God was sorry he had made man. Why would he be sorry if he had made them sinners to begin with, and they were simply doing what he made them to do? God makes each of us, the bible teaching on THAT is clear and unrefutable.

Psalms 51:5 –“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

A favorite of the Arminians, this verse does not declare that David was born with a sin nature. If taken literally, it literally means his mother committed sin in conceiving him, and God's shaping of him was iniquitous. It does not say what the proponents of original sin want it to say.

This is part of David's psalm of repentance and confession for his sin in having Bathsheba's husband killed so he could take her for his own. If David is here confessing that he was born a sinner, and had a sin nature, and therefore his sins are the result of his nature, and not his evil choices, then the rest of the Psalm is redundant. One does not feel GUILT and REMORSE for what they themselves DID NOT HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER. David is not excusing his sins, which is the necessary conclusion that proponents of original sin doctrine try to hide from.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 – “For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”

Again, stating that all are sinners, is not the same as saying all are sinners because they have no control over themselves because they have a sin nature. Such a conclusion is a non sequitur. Notice the tie in between those who are just, as being those who 'sinneth not'. In other words, NOWHERE does the Bible equate sinning with the involuntary possession of human nature, or identifies 'unrighteous' people as those who 'are humans'. Instead, here, as elsewhere, moral condition is equated with ACTIONS - sinning or not sinning.

Romans 5:12-19 – “Wherefore, etc.

The passage specifically states "... and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" thereby refuting the original sin doctrine. the word 'for' means BECAUSE.

I will deal with romans 5 in a later post because it needs to be fully explained.

Ephesians 2:1-3 – “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

This passage says we were dead in tresspasses and sins, not dead because we have a human nature which is sinful, or that we were born sinners. Again, this passage is twisted and misinterpreted to mean what it simply does not say.

1 John 1:8 – “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

Who says we have no sin? Nobody except the deceived.

These and other passages are claimed to prove the doctrine of original sin, and it's corollary, the doctrine of 'total depravity'. These passages however do not actually say we are born sinners, or that humans have a sinful nature birth. To interpret them that way makes the bible contradict itself. To understand them AS THEY ARE ACTUALLY WRITTEN, however, leads to no contradiction.

The truth of the matter?

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. (Ecclesiastes 7:29).

And,

They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation. (Deuteronomy 32:5)