[Sam]

Originally Posted by onlyoneimage

I just wanted to jump in on this. Let me say that i grew up in a baptist church. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior when i was 4 years old. I fully understood what it meant that I was a sinner separated from God...who needed Jesus Christ to pay the price for me. I was baptized as a baby originally(because my mom was lutheran)...and as a believer at 8 in the "name" of the father, son and holy ghost. It wasn't until years later after studying for a long time in my bible....as is my custom, when i was a teenager that i felt the Holy Ghost time and time again in prayer and i felt the physical manifestation when i was praying one night....it was amazing. Later i understood that the bible teaches baptism in Jesus' name. I had a pentecostal pastor friend who re-baptized me. They tried to convince me that i needed to speak in tongues to be saved...but i told them that i knew from the bible that i was saved already. I had even felt the Holy Ghost many times. A couple of years ago(i'm not 28) i got the baptism of the Holy Ghost while attending an AG church. I studied the issue out, and found that on that particular issue....i see the indwelling and baptism of the holy ghost as 2 separate events. Particularly because even many people could see the evidence of salvation in my life. There is no such requirement in scripture to speak in tongues in order to be saved. In some situations, people received the gospel, got baptized in Jesus' name...and had not received tongues. The apostles laid hands on them, and then they got it. So there isn't a consistent viewpoint of tongues as evidence of salvation. If you want evidence....look at what the bible says.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"-Matthew 7:16

" But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."-Galatians 5:22-23

" am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."-John 15:1-5

You can't produce good fruit apart from God. It's the fruit that is evidence of salvation...not tongues. Tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

What did Jesus say about receiving the Holy Ghost?

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."-John 14:17

He was "with them". How? Through Jesus Christ, because Jesus is the Holy Ghost...and through the presence of the Spirit which is EVERYWHERE.

When did He go "in them"?

"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost."-John 20:22

This is the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. So what is different between this and pentecost? This happened right after the resurrection. They couldn't have Him "in them" because they could not be "Holy" and "justified" before the crucifiction of Christ. Here, they "received Him".

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."-Acts 1:8

Notice the wording here. "Ye shall receive POWER, after that the Holy Ghost is come UPON you."

Why is it worded this way? Because they already had the Holy Ghost "in them". The power of the Holy Ghost needed to come upon them in order to take the gospel to the world. Without the baptism, how could they receive the "gifts" of the Holy Ghost? I had never experienced healing before the baptism of the Holy Ghost. In ministry, i had received a commission to "teach"...but other spiritual gifts weren't really there. Now I understand why. Part of receiving the baptism is to tap into that power when we need to. That's one of the purposes of praying in tongues...to edify which means to "build up".

This is from pages 83 to 85 in Chapter 8 of Charisma Versus Charismania by Chuck Smith copyright 1992 by The Word For Today Publishers

Something More

Recently a young man came up to me and said, “I accepted Christ several years ago, but I was never too excited about it. I found reading the Bible uninteresting. In fact, my mind would wander, and I couldn’t really concentrate on the Word. I never really knew what it was to worship God, and my prayer life was erratic. But since I was filled with the Spirit a few months ago, my life has completely changed. I have a great love for the things of God. I can’t seem to get enough of the Word, and now I love to fellowship with the believers. What a great change has happened
n my life since I was filled with the Spirit!”

This story, with variations, has been told to me hundreds of times over by those who have found that there is something more than just having the Spirit indwelling their life at conversion. We do recognize that every born again believer has the Spirit dwelling in him. Writing in 1 Corinthians 6:19, Paul declares that our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. He also declares in 1 Corinthians 12:3 that you cannot call Christ Lord except by the Spirit.

The Spirit and the Believer

There are three Greek prepositions used in the New Testament to designate the different relationships of the Spirit to the believer: para, en, and epi. In John 14:17 Jesus said to His disciples concerning the Holy Spirit, “Ye know him; for he dwelleth with [para] you and shall be in [en] you.”

Here a twofold relationship is expressed: para (with) and en (in). The Holy Spirit was with us prior to our conversion. He is the One who brought us conviction of sin and revealed Christ as the answer. When we accepted Jesus as our Savior and invited Him into our lives, the Holy Spirit began to
indwell us.

But God has something more—the beautiful empowering through the epi relationship. Note that this is what Jesus was promising His disciples just prior to His ascension. In Luke 24:49 He said, “Behold, I send the promise of my Father upon [epi] you” or “over you.” In Acts 1:8 He said, “But ye shall receive power after that the Holy [Spirit] is come upon [epi] you.”

We read in Acts 10:44 that the Holy Spirit descended “upon” the Gentile believers in the house of Cornelius: “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy [Spirit] fell upon [epi] all of them which heard the word.” In Acts 19:6, when Paul laid hands upon the Ephesian believers, the Holy Spirit came upon [epi] them.

We read in Acts 8 that Philip had gone to Samaria and preached Christ unto them; many people believed Philip’s preaching of the things of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, and they were baptized. If there is just one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), then we must accept that at this point the Samaritan believers were baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13), and the Holy Spirit began to indwell them. It is obvious, however, that there was yet a further relationship to the Holy Spirit to be received, for when the church in Jerusalem heard that the Samaritans had received the gospel, they sent Peter and John unto them that they might pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit, for as yet He had fallen upon [epi] none of them.

The Overflowing Life

When Paul came to the church in Ephesus and found that the believers’ experience was lacking, possibly in love or joy and zeal, he asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” If the full relationship with the Spirit is attained simultaneously with conversion, the question makes no sense. The question itself acknowledged a relationship deeper and beyond the conversion experience. What they were lacking was the epi relationship with the Holy Spirit, for that is what resulted when Paul laid his hands upon them in Acts 19:6: “and the Spirit came upon [epi] them.”

Being filled with the Spirit adds new dimensions of love, joy, and exuberance to the Christian life. If Paul the apostle would meet you and begin to share the glories of Christ with you, would he be apt to ask, “Did you receive the Spirit when you believed?” God wants your life not to just be indwelt or even filled with the Spirit. He wants your life to overflow.