Christians and Politics
 

Looking for some info regarding history of believers in politics. Obviously, considering the atmosphere that where in today being Election Day. I’m looking to understand the role a Christian should play or not play in when it comes to world government.
Some of you scholars if you could shoot me some articles or books that maybe you have read or found useful, I’d be thankful.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Interesting topic and one worthy of discussion and researching.

I’m going to just throw out a conversation starter and I, intentionally will not provide supporting information.

How about the Christian Nationalism and the KKK involvement in the “early” Pentecostal movement? Should we get into that?

On a generic level, I know it’s controversial, but I do vote. I make my best attempt to support with my vote whichever candidate is least offensive to my Christian beliefs.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

I don't care what pentecostalism or any other isms thinks or has done.

Government is ordained by God to promote good and restrain evil, as outlined in Romans 13. Its primary function is to maintain justice, uphold the sanctity of life, and protect property.

Christians are called to:

*Respect and Obey Authorities: Be model citizens, honoring and obeying governing authorities (Romans 13:1-7, 1 Peter 2:11-17)
*Pray for Governments: Pray for earthly governments to promote peace, justice, and righteousness (1 Timothy 2:1-4)
*Be Prophetic Voices: Speak out against injustice and call governments to accountability.

Examples of serving in govt:
*Joseph: Served in the Egyptian government, using his influence to benefit society (Genesis 45:9-12).
*Daniel: Held high-ranking positions in foreign administrations, implementing policies that benefited society.
*Queen Esther: Used her influence in the Persian government to save the Jewish people.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

I didn’t know that. Do you articles or a website that I could read further into that? Thanks

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Your examples are great.

Do you think there is a difference between the Old Covenant ways and the New Covenant ways. As far as how God used Joseph, Esther, and Daniel?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Government that is conformed to the will of God is good for the nation. Government that is contrary to the will of God is bad for the nation:

Proverbs 29:2 KJV
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Isaiah 32:1 KJV
Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.

Rulers are required to be Christians, and Christians are not allowed to choose rulers who are not Christians. Rulers must also be of the same nation and stock as those whom they to govern:

Deuteronomy 17:14-20 KJV
When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; [15] Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. [16] But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. [17] Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. [18] And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: [19] And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: [20] That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

Government is ordained by God specifically to punish evil and protect righteousness, and is to be the servant of God:

Romans 13:1-7 KJV
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. [6] For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. [7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Rulers, regardless how they enter into their office, are ultimately put in power by God Himself:

Daniel 4:17 KJV
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

If we as a nation are unrighteous and evil, we will get unrighteous and evil government, usually foreign-controlled:

Deuteronomy 28:43-44 KJV
The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. [44] He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

Deuteronomy 28:68 KJV
And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Since you won't be providing supporting information, then there's not much to discuss, is there?

Who counts your vote?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

The church's role in government:

Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15 KJV
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

"Every creature" includes everybody in government, from the king or President down to the dogcatcher. The church is commissioned by Christ to be the teacher to all nations and everybody in those nations, including their governors and rulers. The goal is to evangelize not just the random people on the street or the random visitors to the church house, but every nation and everybody in those nations, from top to bottom and side to side. Our job is to be the hands and feet of God in converting the entire world to Christ.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

In order to do this, Christians must take God's side on every issue, and must champion the cause of Christ and His LORDSHIP and DOMINION and AUTHORITY in every issue. Rather than retreating from the field of battle and allowing the wicked to have free reign over society, we are to be the heralds of Christ's ascension to the Throne. That is to say, we are to uphold the position that Christ is ruler of the nations and His Law-Word is the true "Supreme Law of the Land". We are to oppose any and every attempt to usurp Christ's authority (such as when society or its rulers attempt to evict Christ and His Gospel and his Word from being the Guiding Light by which they and society are to operate).

Unfortunately, most professing Christians have bought into the satanic lie of "separation of religion and politics" to the point that Christians have now practically no impact on society at large. When we should be taught from day one of our Christian life that Christ is King and therefore there is no such thing as a "separation of religion and politics". Christ's kingdom is "not of this world", but that doesn't mean that Christ is not really and truly KING. The very title "king" necessarily invokes the political. He is "King of kings" meaning He is the rightful God-ordained authority over all "rulers" and governors, regardless of who they are or who they think they are.

All governments must and ultimately will submit to Christ and His government:

Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. [7] Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Micah 4:1-4 KJV
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. [2] And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. [3] And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. [4] But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

There is documentation. I really expected that Esaias would know some stuff. EB hasn’t weighed in yet either. I’ll dig up some documents if I need to. I’d rather wait for others to weigh in.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Since the powers that be are ordained of God, we know that God is ultimately in control. Even though my Sister guilt tripped me into voting, I believe God's purpose will be done on earth as it is in heaven whether I vote or not.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Enter KKK William Branham in the YouTubes search engine and look through the list.

Mormonism is nationalistic as well as the early Pentecostals. Yet, the LDS places themselves specifically into their eschatology. Where they are the ones who will save the United States at a time where the Constitution is threatened. The New Apostolic Reformation are also into Nationalism. Imagine being ruled by those nut jobs. But, keep in mind that not all Pentecostals or Apostolics pledge allegiance to the flag, or vote. Since voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. Down here I found everyone from Eastern Orthodox to Baptists who refuse to vote for any level of government. Who believe that only through conversion (into their particular belief system) will anything be able to change. I spent a good hour listening to an individual tell me today how Donald Trump is the Beast because he was wounded in the head and is alive. I interjected and told him that Ronald Regan already had that title from his assassination attempt. DR D James Kennedy's old church in Fort Lauderdale are hard core Jesus is a Patriot believers. They have Jesus wrapped tight in the stars and stripes. Hey, if Hulk Hogan says it, it must be true. :lol

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Amen in Jesus name.

We always get the leadership we deserve. :thumbsup

Re: Christians and Politics
 

I follow…but this also comes to my mind…isn’t he not willing that any should perish, but they’re still perishing by the groves?


Is it possible that he is not allowing his will to be done with some things?

I don’t think I can wrap my mind around this stuff…hurts my brain…what all falls under “His will”, and if it’s accomplished even without the assistance of his body of Christ.


Not intending to argue your point…just thinking out loud :)


I figure he’s got it all under control know matter who gets voted in.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

For 2,000+ years, the Church has proclaimed the gospel openly, as the Apostle Paul said, "This thing was not done in a corner" (Acts 26:26). Jesus desires none to perish (2 Peter 3:9), yet teaches the path to salvation is narrow: "Enter through the narrow gate... few find it" (Matthew 7:13-14). Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6). People have to be open to an encounter with Jesus instead of rejecting Him and His commandments at every turn. I wonder how much of the big voter turnout is people wanting access to abortion and weed.

In the Old Testament nobody got to vote and yet God moved Kings and Kingdoms around the chess board to accomplish His will at His pleasure.

Alexander the Great conquered the world and God gave us the Septuagint and the Greek new testament to reach a Greek speaking world. The Romans conquered the world making roads accessible for missionaries to travel and preach the gospel. God is always making a way for us.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

:highfive

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Going to be an interesting 4 years. :lol

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngph6pM2RDU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngph6pM2RDU

Re: Christians and Politics
 

The body of Christ in the USA is going to see victory? Is that what he meant to say?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Trump's campaign was so entertaining and innovative while Kamala was boring... I'm interested to see what role Elon will play and who else will be involved. How will RFK Jr implement health improvements. I woke up this morning feeling a little more optimistic, glad Kamala didn't win, cause I suspect she's the antichrist:heeheehee.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

I do know a few things. Yet, it seems you expected me to get into a discussion about a subject where you said "I will intentionally not provide supporting information"?

:spit

Re: Christians and Politics
 

God wants many things that He doesn't necessarily get. Did He want Adam to sin? When it comes to human free will, God is willing to allow people to make their choices. If God just unilaterally saved everyone contrary to their own choice, then what exactly would "salvation" look like? It would look like eternity in hell for most people, because most people don't want anything to do with God.

So there is what people call "the permissive will of God", meaning there are things that God allows that aren't necessarily what He wants, in one sense, but He allows them to happen because in the larger scheme of things it is better. Thus God allows people free will, and allows them to choose evil, because to not allow them to choose evil would do more damage to His moral government of things than to allow them to exercise their free will.

As for the election, it hasn't even happened yet. The President and Vice President are not chosen by Mr and Mrs John Q Public. They are chosen by Electors, appointed by each State. Those Electors haven't yet voted as far as I know.

Thus, all the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on presenting the illusion of a "popular election", all the people involved in conveniently NOT emphasizing the actual election is not in the hands of Mr and Mrs John Q Public, proves beyond any possibility of refutation that the entire system is a racketeering confidence scam.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Nicodemus, did you bail on your thread?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

https://youtu.be/aCNeNwKIwbU?si=0KmSTO2aJPcr0hkR

The video above is an interesting view of Christian Nationalism. I don’t necessarily agree with all of it but I do agree with the fundamental premise that Christian Nationalism is not the answer. It always ends poorly. Because Christian Nationalism basically (in my opinion) is really political in nature. It is not religious. It is really an example of using the power of religion to gain political advantage.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Another video that is focused on the influence of the KKK and on the “early” Pentecostal movement. By the way, the KKK was and still is a church that considers itself Christian, kind of like Christian Nationalism. You sure have to be careful what you endorse or accept under the banner of Christianity or even Pentecostalism or Apostolicalism. As Sister Amanah has alluded to, be cautious when dealing with the isms.

https://youtu.be/sEsqSRNyi7Y?si=XtueTPw4IFRiYywP

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Here is an article that documents the common interests and even fraternity of leadership of the UPCI and others who were involved with the KKK and UPCI simultaneously.

There is no shortage of documentation. Remember that as an organization the UPCI beginning is traced to 1945.

https://william-branham.org/site/res...ecostal_church

Re: Christians and Politics
 

I am having a hard connection between the UPCI and KKK in that article. It just says that Roy was once Pentecostal and went in the evil direction, like many others. I see actually greater connection between Braham himself and KKK in that article.

That guy Roy Davis was evil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Elonzo_Davis

Re: Christians and Politics
 

You tithemeister, will like this. The one that brought (through a member of the congregation) tithing to the Church of God (Cleveland) was the General Overseer Tomlinson. In the same meeting where dissenting voices were said to have been "wise to stay quiet" (literal words from the meeting minutes). The same one that allowed and even invited Davis to run his "revival" meeting, in which he openly advertised his KKK ideas.

By the fruit you will know them.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Christian Nationalism?

https://youtu.be/tnupISwtEB0?si=Qw-f0YQHWkG4nEX7

Re: Christians and Politics
 

A while back you created a thread questioning where the UPCI got their tithe doctrine from. In that thread you posted this information that you are referencing above.

I’m beginning to think that they may have gotten it from the LDS. Have you considered that possibility?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

So the thread is about "Christians and politics" but has devolved into a discussion of Pentecostals, Branham, tithing, and the Klan?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

:lol

Re: Christians and Politics
 

No, I’m reading and going to through what everyone has written in response to the subject. And then I’ll post questions. This has been a subject of interest of mine for the past couple years.

As of right now, I do not believe a believer should be involved with any type of political atmosphere. However, not trying to make doctrine out of what I personally believe. Wanting to see how other people believe.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

I am not saying God isn’t in control.

However in the atmosphere of the government, where does Gods will and man’s will come into play?

Meaning, does the will of an individual or a nation fall to the will of God?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

God can and does move on people, even unjust kings, to do His will. God blesses or punishes, even destroys people or nations, as He deems appropriate. Who can determine exactly how He moves to accomplish His will?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Ok, was just wondering as it seemed things slowed down all of a sudden. :thumbsup

What does that mean? What is a "political atmosphere", and what do you mean by not being involved with it?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

"Atmosphere of the government"? What is that?

And what do you mean by "will of an individual or nation fall to the will of God"?

Re: Christians and Politics
 

God commanded Noah to establish judges (governments) to bring judgment upon evil:

[Genesis 9:6 NKJV] 6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.

Yet, governments fail to do their job many times, and they themselves become workers of evil.

But how the Sovereignty of God is manifested upon them?

These are examples verses:

* Doing miracles against their plans: Gen 11:1-9
* Frustrating their plans and council: Psalms 33:10-11, probably blurring their understanding or ability to see/consider certain things; or even causing events to make their plan fail.
* Deciding the fate of wars: Psalms 33:13-17
* Miraculous intervention for his people: Psalms 33:18-19, Daniel
* Influencing their planning, usually by causing events to make them do something, or by allowing spirits to persuade them in one direction: 2 Kings 24:2, Luke 2:1, 1 King 22:22

The people of God is currently dispersed among nations. Our relationship with the gov of the countries we are in is:

* Working for them: Phil 4:22, Rom 16:23, Daniel
* Prayer for them to be able to bring peace locally: Jer 29:7, 1 Tim 2:1-2
* Obeying them, as long as they don't make us disobey God: Rom 13:1-2, Acts 5:29, 1Pe 2:13-17

Re: Christians and Politics
 

And I think this is the single biggest problem today's Christians have, in regards to the state of society: they really don't believe that Christ is King.

Jesus was the literal heir to the throne of David, and the rightful ruler of all 12 tribes. Moreover, He was the rightful heir of God Almighty, and thus His inheritance is the entire world. He died. But He rose again from the dead.

That means He is STILL the legal, lawful heir of the Davidic monarchy, in fact He is currently the reigning monarch over the 12 tribes and over the whole earth. When He said "ALL power in heaven and in earth is given unto Me" He meant exactly what He said.

But most Christians today do not really believe this. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is just as much of a genuine reigning monarch as King Charles of England is. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is just as lawfully, legally, and actually, and personally the Chief Executive as much as if not more so than any current, past, or future President of the US.

Somehow, in the minds of most Christians, when Jesus ascended into heaven He left the "real world" and ascended into the realm of "fantasy and myth". He is viewed as "Lord" only metaphorically, not really truly and actually. He is Lord of some nice morals and ethical behaviour for those who choose to "take the leap of faith" and adopt the "Christian religion".

But the truth is He is Lord whether anyone believes in Him or not. He is the actual King of Israel. The real, legitimate, living, reigning monarch established by Israel's law and by God's decree. That means His kingdom is not just "a neat idea". It is a real, actual, lawful, legal, genuine, legitimate KINGDOM, with real laws and a real citizenship.

When people realise this, it changes their entire perspective on the whole subject of "politics".

Many try to say "religion and politics shouldn't mix" but that is silly. Politics is "how the nation should be governed." Religion is "how people should obey God". BOTH are "how are people to live"? The nation is the people, there is no such thing as a nation without people. Politics is always somebody's MORAL LAW being put into effect. Politics IS "religion" and vice versa.

If men are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, then men's politics are to be governed by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Trying to stuff God into some cupboard of life separate from "politics" is an affront to God and a denial of His Godhood and His authority. It is literally treason against Christ.

If you recognise the Federal government as the lawful US government, then if you decided that you will only listen to the Federal government when it comes to your setting foot on say a US military base or a US Post Office, but otherwise you shall ignore federal law and in fact promote the idea that the Federal government has no say so whatsoever outside of the limits of Washington, DC, would you not be considered an insurrectionist? An outlaw? A rebel?

How much more so if you are a Christian, a citizen of the kingdom of Christ, and yet you think to let His enemies run everything outside of the four walls of your church building?

It is the enemies of Christ who invented the very concept of "separation of church and state". Caesar didn't care that Christians believed they would go to heaven when they died or that Jesus pardoned their sins. But Caesar most certainly DID care about the idea that Jesus is KING, that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD. Which has always been a very POLITICAL title.

When Christians discover that they have in fact enrolled in citizenship in an real actual kingdom, the Israel of GOD, and that Christ is REALLY KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS, they will begin to act like it, and begin to live as subjects of the King. They will advance the interests of Christ's Kingdom in all areas of life, including whatever "political life" they might be involved in.

And the enemies of the Gospel are actually scared of THAT happening, far more than they give one whit or hoot about whether or not you "go to church" or what you believe about the "afterlife" or whatever other belief you may hold. Believe what you want, they say, as long as nobody else has to pay you any mind.

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Jesus is are ONLY PRESIDENT.

Thank you my brother for this post. :thumbsup

Re: Christians and Politics
 

Yes indeed, that's the message. :highfive