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Esaias 11-13-2017 01:59 AM

Christmas is pagan
 
http://www.humanreligions.info/NoXMasTrees.jpg

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:01 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6e/25/71/6...ministries.jpg

Jito463 11-13-2017 02:02 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Speaking personally, I'm just not into celebrating any holiday. I barely even acknowledge my own birthday.

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:04 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/94/ce/2c/9...tmas-jesus.jpg

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:08 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram...NjgwMDY2NDg4.2

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:15 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Tradition and Victorian Craft Lore
The history of the Christmas tree is a rich religious genealogy of the ancient Nordic peoples of the windswept forests spanning Northern Europe, and the warm Victorian countryside of 19th century England. By evolving throughout the centuries from Norse pagan nature worship to Germanic Christian tradition and again to Victorian Christmas folklore, the Christmas tree finally found itself engendered within the contemporary Christmas icon of the Balsam fir Christmas tree. Though the Christmas tree today can be considered more the influence of Victorian craft lore, the spiritual forefather, a dark and haunting aged Evergreen, has his roots firmly fixed to the frozen soil of ancient Germanic mountain forests. The origin of the Christmas tree is a mysterious and timeless pagan legend.
The Norse Pagan History of the Christmas Tree:
To fully appreciate the history of the Christmas tree, one must understand the mystical importance coniferous evergreens held for the pagan Norsemen who inhabited the frigid and often enchanting forests of Northern Germany. This era of pre-Christian Germanic history can be characterized as a time as savage as it was beautiful, mystical as it was mysterious, and as warm hearted as it was cold and bitter in a frozen landscape. Pre-Christian Pagans inhabited a land that they believed they shared with numerous Gods, nature-spirits, and demons. A common example was the Norse worship of the Oak tree; its strong and long burning wood was a sign of the strength of the spirits that inhabited the Oak, and it was often used as a symbol of the Norse god chieftain, Odin.
When the seasons turned, however, and winter brought with it numerous evils and malicious spirits stalking the shadows of wintery forests, the Pagan peoples would turn to the aid and magic of any nature spirits that would help them. Plants and trees such as mistletoe, holly and evergreen, unlike the forementioned Oak tree, were believed to have some special power against the darker magics of winter because they were the only plants that stayed green throughout the year. During the winter, to shore their homes from malevolent winter spirits, Pagan Germanic peoples would hang wreaths and bushels of evergreens over their doors and windows, believing their spirit was enough to ward off winter evils. In many cases evergreen decor were brought indoors where their scent could freshen the dark, medieval homes of otherwise stagnant straw and thresh. The needles and cones would even be burned as a form of incense; its smoke and fragrance filling the home with the protective spirit-magic of the evergreen.
During the Winter Solstice, when winter was at its darkest and the days were the shortest of the year by the Germanic Lunar Calendar, Celtic and pagan civilizations throughout Northern Europe would celebrate and sacrifice to the Norse god, Jul (Though pronounced and contemporarily recognized as "Yule."), and celebrate their Yule Tide festival. This is the tradition from which we have our Yule log, today. The Germanic practice, however, involved cutting down a massive hardwood log that was large enough to burn for twelve days of feasting and sacrifice, and served as a fertility symbol to both help with the coming of spring and prophesize its bounty. During the Winter Solstice, when winter had its strongest influence on the frozen landscape, Norse pagans would, by tradition, bring entire evergreen trees into their homes. These massive evergreens were called Yule trees, and it was believed that the spirits of the trees would inhabit their home and bless its inhabitants. This practice was as much Winter Solstice tradition as it was mystical protection from night-faring spirits during the darkest times of the year.
http://delongfarms.com/tree_1.html

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:25 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
In the book History of Rome, by Michael Grant, we read this startling revelation:

"Yet there was also another pagan belief during this same epoch, that much more nearly competed with Christ for the control of the Western world. This was the cult of the Sun, which was revered by millions of the inhabitants of the Roman Empire, and its religion for a time even became the state worship....

"In Rome, the divinity of the Sun came very early on; and then, centuries afterwards, in the superb dome of Hadrian's Pantheon, the central opening, surrounded by star-like rosettes, represented the solar orb....Before long, the emperor Aurelian established a massive temple of the Unconquerable Sun as the central and focal point of the entire religious system of the state (274). The birthday of the god was to be on DECEMBER 25, AND THIS, TRANSFORMED INTO CHRISTMAS DAY, WAS ONE OF THE HERITAGES THAT CHRISTIANITY OWED TO HIS CULT" (p. 391- 392, emphasis mine).

Notice! Christianity took over the birthday of the sun god, the cult of the sun, and transformed it into CHRISTMAS DAY, the "birthday" of Yeshua the Messiah! It was in reality the birth day of the pagan sun god, worshipped by millions throughout the Roman Empire!

We read more about this novel and profound "plot" to turn paganism into "Christianity" in a book by historian Jack Finegan, Myth & Mystery: An Introduction to the Pagan Religions of the Biblical World. Finegan writes:

"...But the worship of the sun-god continued widely throughout the empire, and under Aurelian (A.D. 270-275) the cult was restored to its former high estate. In the year 274 Aurelian declared the god -- now called Deus Sol Invictus -- the official deity of the Roman Empire; he built a splendid temple of the sun in Rome...and set the sun's birthday celebration (naturalis solis invicti) ON DECEMBER 25, the date then accepted for the winter solstice (also in his solar character the BIRTHDAY OF MITHRAS). In the time of Constantine the cult of Deus Sol Invictus was still at its height, and the portrait of the sun-god was on the coins of Constantine....Likewise it must have been in this time and with the intent to transform the significance of AN EXISTING SACRED DATE that the birthday of Jesus, which had been celebrated in the East on January 6...was placed in Rome ON DECEMBER 25, THE DATE OF THE BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION OF SOL INVICTUS. This date appears in a list of dates probably compiled in A.D. 336 and published in the Roman city calendar, edited by Filocalus, for the year 354"
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:35 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Here are the facts:

Christmas is wholly a pagan holy day in celebration of Saturn. Saturn was a Roman personification of Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god, who was also the god of the Sun. Mithra (known in Rome as Sol Invictus, the Invincible Sun) is the Persian version of Baal. The Winter Solstice was the time of the "birth of the Sun God", celebrated anywhere from around December 20-January 5 or thereabouts. Eventually, December 25th was settled on. The holy day was simply part of a week or so long festive season (hence the whole "twelve days of Christmas").

Christmas is an ancient holy day of the Baal religion. It is part of Sun worship, the worship of the Sun god. (Yes, that's why you go to church every single SUN day, the Dies Soli, the Day of the Sun, which was also a major holy day in ancient Canaan in honour of Baal.)

"But, we practice the rites of Baal, Mithra, and Saturn in honour of Jesus! It's all about Jesus!"

But what does the BIBLE say?

Deuteronomy 12:30-32 KJV (30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

It is expressly forbidden to worship God using pagan rites and customs!

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:48 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God
Thou shalt not do SO - meaning "in that manner". What manner? Enquiring after the pagan religious customs, as to how they worshipped their demon gods.

Thou shalt not do so UNTO THE LORD - you shall NOT take pagan religious customs and ADAPT THEM TO THE WORSHIP OF THE TRUE GOD. It is EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. Repurposing pagan holy days, and ceremonies, to the worship of God, is SIN.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
God has ordained the worship He wants us to give Him. It is in the Bible. We are not allowed to "add" or "take away" from the worship He has ordained. If you think you can take pagan religious practices and offer them to God, if you think He accepts such vain will-worship, YOU ARE MISTAKEN. It is ABOMINABLE to God. He literally HATES it.

"Oh, but God hears all my prayers, even though I'm steeped in pagan traditions!"


2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV (11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
God will make sure you believe lies and are damned, if you reject the truth of His Word.

Esaias 11-13-2017 02:58 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDY1jX-LJqw

houston 11-13-2017 05:52 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Where is the anti thanksgiving thread?

Esaias 11-13-2017 05:59 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1509641)
Where is the anti thanksgiving thread?

Do you believe Thanksgiving Day is an ancient holy day of old pagan demon worship "updated" for modern times?

Or is it a civil "holy" day established by various US administrations as a day on which to give thanks to God for His blessings?

In all actuality, Thanksgiving Day has become Gluttony Day for most Americans.

houston 11-13-2017 06:03 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Depends on who you ask

http://www.creationcalendar.com/Stat...anksgiving.pdf

houston 11-13-2017 06:05 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/thankgiv.htm

houston 11-13-2017 06:05 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Not to derail your thread...

Esaias 11-13-2017 06:14 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.
Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?
Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

Which one do YOU have?

Esaias 11-13-2017 06:15 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1509646)
Not to derail your thread...

Doesn't matter to us, we don't do Turkey Day anymore.

Esaias 11-13-2017 06:20 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
1 Corinthians 10:18-22 KJV (18) Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? (19) What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? (20) But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
The apostle declared that participating in religious customs puts you in fellowship with the GOD SERVED BY THOSE RITES. The heathen customs are DEMONIC. Participation in heathen religious customs puts you in fellowship with DEMONS. Christians CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You cannot partake both of the Lord's table, and the table of demons. to put it simply, if you partake of the table of demons, you are cut off from the Lord's table. You cut off your fellowship with Christ.

Esaias 11-13-2017 06:24 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 KJV (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, (18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
To be received by God as His child you MUST break off connection with the rites, ceremonies, customs, and practices of demon worship. You must have the attitude that doesn't even want to TOUCH that which God abhors as unclean and filthy. You CANNOT BE SAVED while continuing to maintain fellowship with demons, darkness, and idolatry.

Esaias 11-13-2017 06:43 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by houston (Post 1509645)

Hey, that was a good article! Thanks for posting it.

:highfive

houston 11-13-2017 06:53 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509652)
Hey, that was a good article! Thanks for posting it.

:highfive

Cool...

I plan on phasing out holidays (again) beginning next year. But, I have come to enjoy Thanksgiving and secular Christmas.

consapente89 11-13-2017 07:27 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509649)
You cut off your fellowship with Christ.

wow...someone needs to let God know this.

Steve Epley 11-13-2017 08:03 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
It is simple to me I don’t:
Make the sign of the cross
Pray the rosary
Sprinkle holy water
Place ash on my forehead
Have a confessional
Pray to Mary
Pray to saints
Wear a cross
Have religious statues in my house
Wear a clerical collar
Celebrate Xmas
I am not a Catholic.

Aquila 11-13-2017 10:11 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509650)
To be received by God as His child you MUST break off connection with the rites, ceremonies, customs, and practices of demon worship. You must have the attitude that doesn't even want to TOUCH that which God abhors as unclean and filthy. You CANNOT BE SAVED while continuing to maintain fellowship with demons, darkness, and idolatry.

Does this apply to every rite, tradition, decoration, practice, or observance originating from paganism, or just to Christmas?

For example, the Quakers used to note the days of the week as "First Day", "Second Day", "Third Day", etc. because the calendar days of the week as we know them are named in honor of pagan gods. They also didn't observe holidays or birthdays.

In addition, there are homiletic practices of rhetoric in most modern "sermons" that are Aristotelian in origin.

And then there is the "steeple" which is found on most houses of worship, which originated among the pagans as a phallic symbol above the temples of their fertility cults.

Even wedding rings are "pagan", as is birthday cake and birthday candles.

I could go on and on.

It's important to note that while many of these traditions (including Christmas traditions) originated from pagan peoples as part of pagan practice, a number of these things have evolved and changed through the centuries to the point that they have become far removed from any "pagan" practice.

For example, wreaths...

In the Greco-Roman world, wreaths were used as an adornment that could represent a person’s occupation, rank, their achievements and status. The wreath that was commonly used was the laurel wreath. The use of this wreath comes from the Greek myth involving Apollo, Zeus’ son and the god of life and light, who fell in love with the nymph Daphne. When he pursued her she fled and asked the river god Peneus to help her. Peneus turned her into a laurel tree. From that day, Apollo wore a wreath of laurel on his head. Laurel wreaths became associated with what Apollo embodied; victory, achievement and status and would later become one of the most commonly used symbols to address achievement throughout Greece and Rome. Laurel wreaths were used to crown victorious athletes at the original Olympic Games and are still worn in Italy by university students who just graduated.

Harvest wreaths, a common household decoration today, are a custom with ancient roots in Europe. The creation of harvest wreaths in Europe can be traced back to ancient times, and is associated with animistic spiritual beliefs. In Ancient Greece, the harvest wreath was a sacred amulet, using wheat or other harvested plants, woven together with red and white wool thread. The harvest wreath would be hung by the door year-round.

Harvest wreaths were an important symbol to the community in Ancient Greece, not merely to the farmer and his family. The festivals devoted to Dionysus, the Oschophoria and Anthesteria, included a ritual procession called the eiresîonê. A harvest wreath was carried to Pyanopsia and Thargelia by young boys, who would sing during the journey. The laurel or olive wreath would be hung at the door, and then offerings were made to Helios and the Hours. It was hoped that this ritual would bring protection against crop failure and plagues.

Pre-Christian Europeans began creating winter wreaths out of evergreen, a tree whose magic was believed to be able to withstand the bitter cold of winter, and so they represented eternal life. Holly was also a mystical symbol of immortality and was added to the winter wreaths. These were believed to hold the power to hold back the sickness and death that was so common in the bitter winter months of Europe. Mistletoe was eventually added to the winter wreath because it was seen as having magical properties that would increase love and fertility among couples.

As more and more Europeans became Christians, much of the symbolism behind these things were applied to Christ. It's important to remember that most ancient people didn't have a "Bible" like we do. They communicated the Gospel they heard through common cultural things. Newly converted Christians would communicate the Gospel through these things to their friends and neighbors by explaining that Jesus is the true "tree of life" who provides eternal life against the bitterly could seasons of life. The circular wreath was used to And so, the majority of Europeans who became what we know as Catholic today incorporated the wreath into devotional practice especially in relation to "Christmas" the time set aside to remember Christ's birth (I say set aside to remember Christ's birth because Christ's birthday certainly wasn't in December).

After the Protestant Reformation, Protestant Christians continued adorning their homes with wreaths during the holidays. And as Christians began to spread about the world through colonization, winter Christmas wreaths made their way into the Americas. Once in America, the wreath was admired not only for its spiritual meaning, but also its beauty. Many people in America, being capitalist, began to market the wreath as merely a "decoration". After several generations of this, most people in America today, including Christians, don't know the origins or history of the winter wreath. It is hung on doors, above fireplaces, and on walls as simply a festive winter, or "Christmas season", decoration. In addition, they are now made of nearly any material one can imagine and in as many styles as one can imagine. For the most part, there is no longer any religious association to the seasonal decoration. It's only hung on account of its aesthetic beauty.

Originalist 11-13-2017 10:40 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
I do not care one way or another about Christmas. But it is a good day to see relatives that I otherwise would not. I am not sinning if I enjoy a meal with them on that day and even reflect on the incarnation, even if was not born at that time.

Esaias 11-13-2017 10:57 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89 (Post 1509656)
wow...someone needs to let God know this.

God already let us know this. Right there in His Word.

Esaias 11-13-2017 10:58 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 1509657)
It is simple to me I don’t:
Make the sign of the cross
Pray the rosary
Sprinkle holy water
Place ash on my forehead
Have a confessional
Pray to Mary
Pray to saints
Wear a cross
Have religious statues in my house
Wear a clerical collar
Celebrate Xmas
I am not a Catholic.

:thumbsup

Esaias 11-13-2017 11:12 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1509663)
I do not care one way or another about Christmas. But it is a good day to see relatives that I otherwise would not. I am not sinning if I enjoy a meal with them on that day and even reflect on the incarnation, even if was not born at that time.

...and touch not the unclean thing.

People may not care one way or another, but God cares.

Originalist 11-13-2017 11:25 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509668)
...and touch not the unclean thing.

People may not care one way or another, but God cares.

There is nothing unclean about a particular day. Days are neither holy or unholy. They are nothing more than revolutions of the earth on its axis. Eating a meal with relatives or thinking about the incarnation on that day is no different than doing it on any other day.

Esaias 11-13-2017 11:31 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1509662)
Does this apply to every rite, tradition, decoration, practice, or observance originating from paganism, or just to Christmas?

For example, the Quakers used to note the days of the week as "First Day", "Second Day", "Third Day", etc. because the calendar days of the week as we know them are named in honor of pagan gods. They also didn't observe holidays or birthdays.

In addition, there are homiletic practices of rhetoric in most modern "sermons" that are Aristotelian in origin.

And then there is the "steeple" which is found on most houses of worship, which originated among the pagans as a phallic symbol above the temples of their fertility cults.

Even wedding rings are "pagan", as is birthday cake and birthday candles.

1. The days of the week are named after pagan gods. However, I could argue that the mere use of the conventional naming system is not in itself an act of joining in pagan worship. There are a couple months in the Bible, referred to by their Babylonian names. But that is DIFFERENT from an OBSERVANCE of RITUALS originating in devil worship being used as a means of memorialising God.

2. Birthdays are questionable. Some birthday celebrations - such as lighting candles on a cake - undoubtedly originate in pagan demon worship. I don't know that the MERE celebration of the anniversary of one's birth is itself solely a pagan custom, especially when there are no rites or rituals of demon worship taking place.

3. Rhetoric, based not upon Aristotle, but upon Cicero and Quintillian and Aphthonius, has been a part of communication since classical days (pre-Christian). Rhetoric, however, is not pagan demon worship anymore than the alphabet is. Rhetorical knowledge does not originate in nor does it depend on nor does it perpetuate pagan demon worship anymore than good penmandship. (Side note: Aristotle wrote a "Rhetoric" but hardly anyone used it, they preferred his works on dialectics - logic - for the canon of Invention, but Aristotle was no rhetor. For instruction in rhetoric they preferred Cicero, Quintillian, and Aphthonius. Augustine's work "On Christian Teaching" discusses rhetoric, and he points out that classroom instruction is rhetoric is unnecessary, you just need to be familiar with Scripture, and by being familiar with Scripture you will absorb the rhetoric of the apostles, prophets, and Christ. In other words, as even Quintillian and Cicero often pointed out, rhetorical skill is often better caught than taught.)

4. The steeple is a phallic symbol representing the missing phallus of Osiris, that is its origin. It came to be excused as a means of people being able to locate the church house from a distance, now it's just an ornament. But yes it originates in pagan demon worship. Essentially an obelisk to the sun god on top of the temple dedicated to the sun god. Nothing new under the sun, apparently.

5. Wedding rings are pagan. They also have an origin in pagan superstitious beliefs. Which is why my wife and I don't wear them.

6. Birthday cake is simply a sweet bread. Sweet bread ("cakes") were used by all cultures for all sorts of things, especially any kind of celebration or feast. Candles on the cake, blowing them out, etc as part of a celebration are pagan customs of demon worship.

I think a distinction ought also to be made between simply superstitious customs that have survived the centuries (like saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes which originated in the belief that a sneeze could invite demons to enter the body) on the one hand, and undoubtedly RELIGIOUS RITES and CEREMONIES and HOLY DAYS being promoted to people under the lie that there's something CHRISTIAN about them. Both ought to be examined, but the rites of demon worship are clearly a greater danger.

Would it be okay for a Christian to draw the circle, open the directions with Solomon's Seal (hexagram), and invoke the Holy Guardian Angels of the Watchtowers, as a means of worshipping Jesus? Medieval occultists used the Hebrew Names of God to summon and "control" demons, as part of "demonstrating the power of Christ over the spirits". But who in their right mind would countenance such acts as being in any way, shape, or form suitable to a genuine Christian?

Yet the rites of Christmas, Easter, "fall festivals" and Halloween, etc are absolutely no different. Pagan devil worship, masquerading as "Christian".

Esaias 11-13-2017 11:39 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1509670)
There is nothing unclean about a particular day. Days are neither holy or unholy. They are nothing more than revolutions of the earth on its axis. Eating a meal with relatives or thinking about the incarnation on that day is no different than doing it on any other day.

Suppose your relatives kept an annual holy day in honour of Baal every year. Would it be okay for you to come over and join their ceremonies? Nothing "unclean" about it? Nothing "unholy" about it?

God Himself commands us to avoid pagan religious practices, and explicitly commands us not to attempt to appropriate pagan devil worship into the worship of God. And you are saying it's a matter of "indifference"?

People say "doing it on that day is no different than doing it on any other day" yet I guarantee you don't do those same things on any other day, as a matter of regular custom. Sure, you may eat a meal and reflect on Christ on some other day, but do you do that on that other day - EVERY SINGLE YEAR? No, of course not. It's randomised.

But EVERY December 25th, certain things get done... that means you are observing that day as a special day of remembrance. It is DIFFERENT and SEPARATE FROM the other days of the years. THAT means it is "sanctified" or "holy" (although not sanctified by God). It is "holy" in your practice.

Just try SKIPPING that day this year - see if you don't get family asking "what's wrong, why don't you want to celebrate Christmas with us?"

It's like the addict saying "I can quit any time I want." Uh, suuuuure.

consapente89 11-13-2017 11:41 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509665)
God already let us know this. Right there in His Word.

I respect you. And I respect your conviction and the conviction of all others who do not celebrate Xmas. Honestly, I hate it. I don't believe that "Jesus is the reason for the season." I do attend family get togethers and buy gifts for our children. My wife knows how I feel and we will NEVER decorate our home for Xmas or put up a tree. But to say that you are cut off from fellowship with Jesus if you celebrate it is baloney. I know many good strong Apostolics that celebrate it to one degree or another, and I have enough fear of God that I would never say they are cut off from fellowship with God because of a stupid holiday.

Esaias 11-13-2017 11:41 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.
Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?
Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

Which one do YOU have?

Esaias 11-13-2017 11:45 AM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89 (Post 1509674)
I respect you. And I respect your conviction and the conviction of all others who do not celebrate Xmas. Honestly, I hate it. I don't believe that "Jesus is the reason for the season." I do attend family get togethers and buy gifts for our children. My wife knows how I feel and we will NEVER decorate our home for Xmas or put up a tree. But to say that you are cut off from fellowship with Jesus if you celebrate it is baloney. I know many good strong Apostolics that celebrate it to one degree or another, and I have enough fear of God that I would never say they are cut off from fellowship with God because of a stupid holiday.

1 Corinthians 10:18-22 KJV (18) Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? (19) What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? (20) But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
The apostle declared that participating in religious customs puts you in fellowship with the GOD SERVED BY THOSE RITES. The heathen customs are DEMONIC. Participation in heathen religious customs puts you in fellowship with DEMONS. Christians CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You cannot partake both of the Lord's table, and the table of demons. to put it simply, if you partake of the table of demons, you are cut off from the Lord's table. You cut off your fellowship with Christ.

Brother, I respect you too. But the Scripture says what it says. You CANNOT - C A N N O T - partake of BOTH the table of the Lord, AND the table of demons. That means it's either one... or the other. So if you pick one, you reject the other. God is a jealous God. Santa isn't. Santa doesn't care what you celebrate alongside him.

But God does.

Esaias 11-13-2017 12:09 PM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
It can certainly be difficult to abandon long held traditions and practices. When we became convicted years ago to separate ourselves from pagan customs, it was difficult at first. Peer pressure is an incredibly powerful thing. We had to listen to relatives scold us for denying our children the fun of Halloween and Christmas. We had professing Christians scold us for not wanting to honour Jesus' birth. We were mocked and reproached. It took some time to wean our family off of these things. But by the grace of God we were freed from these pagan attachments.

We found that, over time, as we maintained consistency, others came to understand that we simply weren't going to participate in them. They quit harassing us about it. They came to respect our stand, at least when they were around us. What people say behind your back is irrelevant, you have no control over that. And I have found that people who reproach you behind your back will do so no matter WHAT you do.

It is always difficult and uncomfortable to cease old habits and begin new ones. But with time and being steadfast, the new way becomes normal, and the old ways "wax old and fade away."

We're all learning, and we're all at different stages in our understanding. But God is calling us all to come out from among the world and its ways, and be SEPARATE. Let's follow God, and leave the devil worship behind. Serving the devil never got us anywhere anyway.

JoeBandy 11-13-2017 12:14 PM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
I think I just heard a rooster crow three times!!

Aquila 11-13-2017 12:15 PM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1509663)
I do not care one way or another about Christmas. But it is a good day to see relatives that I otherwise would not. I am not sinning if I enjoy a meal with them on that day and even reflect on the incarnation, even if was not born at that time.

I feel much the same way... no one knows when Christ was actually born, so any time is as good as any other to reflect on and contemplate the implications of the incarnation. The cultural practice of "Christmas" provides a historical context for this, and it allows for families to come together in love, generosity, and good will. It allows for a family reunion of sorts to break bread, share, and pass down family knowledge, traditions, and to see kids and introduce them to the family they too are a part of that they might not typically get to know. There is no harm in these things.

And as for many of the cultural traditions such as Christmas trees, wreaths, presents, Santa (St. Nicholas, bishop of Myra), Christmas cards, Yule logs, etc., are all so far removed from their "pagan" origins they are merely plastic cultural decorations and lights. With the nights being longer and the cold setting in, sometimes the lights can help bring some cheer.

Should we see any "spiritual" significance to these traditions? Should any of these traditions be regarded as "sacred"? No! They are merely cultural. What if someone feels like a plastic Christmas tree with lights and thin glass ornaments is of the devil? Well, since it is only cultural, it matters not if they wish to abstain from having a Christmas tree or from partaking in the festivities.

P.S.
Historical note. St. Nicholas was reportedly the Bishop of Myra, a city in ancient Turkey. It was a haven for Monarchians and Modalists who were influenced by Paul of Samosata. While Bishop Nicolas was reportedly present at the Nicene Council (Bishop 305), his name was later omitted from the final attendance roster at the end of the council. Some say it was because he physically struck Arius for denying that Jesus was God during the council's examination of the Arian heresy and was dismissed by the council. Others note that while Nicholas obviously believed that Jesus was God, he wasn't in agreement with the Trinitarian majority that had gained favor with the emperor and so excused himself from the proceedings. This would present the possibility that Nicholas was either a Modalist or a Monarchian himself. In Eutychius’ Arabic Origins of the Church Nicholas is listed as being of "Myrdan", which in Aramaic means, "Apostate". And so some scholars see this early Trinitarian reference to Nicholas as being, "Nicholas the Apostate", on account of what might have been his Modalistic beliefs. Many miracles were attributed to Nicholas' ministry, along with marked compassion for orphans and the poor. After Nicholas died, others continued to serve the poor by giving anonymous gifts in the name of Nicholas. Travelers to Myra were deeply moved at the compassion shown by the Christians in Myra who continued to give in secret in the name of Nicholas and sailors spread the practice to different shores, and thereby expanded the custom of giving anonymously in this Bishop's name. After many miracles and visions were attributed to Nicholas, even after his death, the church declared Nicholas a venerable Saint and established his feast day as December 6th (the day of his death). The feast was observed through anonymous gift giving in the name of Nicholas and extraordinary charity toward the poor to see them through the cold winter months that would follow. Having the feast of St. Nicholas on the 6th and the feast of Christ-Mass (Christmas) on December 25th proved problematic for pilgrims to observe, seeing the expense of extensive travel within a single month. When forced to choose, Christmas was deemed more holy and so most would only pilgrimage on Christmas, combining their the Feast of St. Nicholas observances with their Christmas observances. And so, St. Nicholas, gift giving, and charity towards the poor became integrated into Christmas. Many legends, miracles, and even blended myths eventually became associated with St. Nicholas and various local customs evolved to honor the saint. When those who observed the Feast of St. Nicholas came to the New World, their languages pronounced his name "Sinterklas" or "Sant Iklaus." This morphed into the name, "Santa Claus". Coke-a-Cola ran with this and published advertisements of St. Nicholas in his red pajamas getting up in the middle of the night to begin his visitations with a bottle of Coke-a-Cola. This image of St. Nicholas in red pajamas and his red pajama hat became immortalized in the American psyche and so the American concept of St. Nicholas became the image of him we know today.

My point? The tradition of "Santa Claus" is a distinctly "Christian tradition" of anonymous giving that was eventually incorporated into what we know as Christmas today. In addition, the historical "Santa Claus" may have been an ancient champion of Oneness.

http://stgeorgesardmore.files.wordpr...2/nicholas.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8BhTSZjM4T...bert-22-37.jpg

http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/9...f55abc4736.gif

JoeBandy 11-13-2017 12:22 PM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1509680)
I feel much the same way... no one knows when Christ was actually born, so any time is as good as any other to reflect on and contemplate the implications of the incarnation. The cultural practice of "Christmas" provides a historical context for this, and it allows for families to come together in love, generosity, and good will. It allows for a family reunion of sorts to break bread, share, and pass down family knowledge, traditions, and to see kids and introduce them to the family they too are a part of that they might not typically get to know. There is no harm in these things.

And as for many of the cultural traditions such as Christmas trees, wreaths, presents, Santa (St. Nicholas, bishop of Myra), Christmas cards, Yule logs, etc., are all so far removed from their "pagan" origins they are merely plastic cultural decorations and lights. With the nights being longer and the cold setting in, sometimes the lights can help bring some cheer.

Should we see any "spiritual" significance to these traditions? Should any of these traditions be regarded as "sacred"? No! They are merely cultural. What if someone feels like a plastic Christmas tree with lights and thin glass ornaments is of the devil? Well, since it is only cultural, it matters not if they wish to abstain from having a Christmas tree or from partaking in the festivities.

P.S.
Historical note. St. Nicholas was reportedly the Bishop of Myra, a city in ancient Turkey. It was a haven for Monarchians and Modalists who were influenced by Paul of Samosata. While Bishop Nicolas was reportedly present at the Nicene Council (Bishop 305), his name was later omitted from the final attendance roster at the end of the council. Some say it was because he physically struck Arius for denying that Jesus was God during the council's examination of the Arian heresy and was dismissed by the council. Others note that while Nicholas obviously believed that Jesus was God, he wasn't in agreement with the Trinitarian majority that had gained favor with the emperor and so excused himself from the proceedings. This would present the possibility that Nicholas was either a Modalist or a Monarchian himself. In Eutychius’ Arabic Origins of the Church Nicholas is listed as being of "Myrdan", which in Aramaic means, "Apostate". And so some scholars see this early Trinitarian reference to Nicholas as being, "Nicholas the Apostate", on account of what might have been his Modalistic beliefs. Many miracles were attributed to Nicholas' ministry, along with marked compassion for orphans and the poor. After Nicholas died, others continued to serve the poor by giving anonymous gifts in the name of Nicholas. Travelers to Myra were deeply moved at the compassion shown by the Christians in Myra who continued to give in secret in the name of Nicholas and sailors spread the practice to different shores, and thereby expanded the custom of giving anonymously in this Bishop's name. After many miracles and visions were attributed to Nicholas, even after his death, the church declared Nicholas a venerable Saint and established his feast day as December 6th (the day of his death). The feast was observed through anonymous gift giving in the name of Nicholas and extraordinary charity toward the poor to see them through the cold winter months that would follow. Having the feast of St. Nicholas on the 6th and the feast of Christ-Mass (Christmas) on December 25th proved problematic for pilgrims to observe, seeing the expense of extensive travel within a single month. When forced to choose, Christmas was deemed more holy and so most would only pilgrimage on Christmas, combining their the Feast of St. Nicholas observances with their Christmas observances. And so, St. Nicholas, gift giving, and charity towards the poor became integrated into Christmas. Many legends, miracles, and even blended myths eventually became associated with St. Nicholas and various local customs evolved to honor the saint. When those who observed the Feast of St. Nicholas came to the New World, their languages pronounced his name "Sinterklas" or "Sant Iklaus." This morphed into the name, "Santa Claus". Coke-a-Cola ran with this and published advertisements of St. Nicholas in his red pajamas getting up in the middle of the night to begin his visitations with a bottle of Coke-a-Cola. This image of St. Nicholas in red pajamas and his red pajama hat became immortalized in the American psyche and so the American concept of St. Nicholas became the image of him we know today.

My point? The tradition of "Santa Claus" is a distinctly "Christian tradition" of anonymous giving that was eventually incorporated into what we know as Christmas today.

http://stgeorgesardmore.files.wordpr...2/nicholas.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8BhTSZjM4T...bert-22-37.jpg

http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/9...f55abc4736.gif

This discussion has been hashed on here every year. I think Esaias is just to cheap to buy gifts!!

Esaias 11-13-2017 12:26 PM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBandy (Post 1509679)
I think I just heard a rooster crow three times!!

Hurry and repent!

Esaias 11-13-2017 12:34 PM

Re: Christmas is pagan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBandy (Post 1509681)
This discussion has been hashed on here every year. I think Esaias is just to cheap to buy gifts!!

https://giant.gfycat.com/NegativeLinedGrayling.gif


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