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KeptByTheWord 10-24-2016 10:16 AM

What is the GOSPEL?
 
Seems a simple enough question, of course.

Back up your statement with scripture that supports the question.

KeptByTheWord 10-24-2016 10:41 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Is there a scripture that says simply, "The gospel is ______ "

I have looked, and found pages of scriptures that say the gospel has been preached, and many references to the gospel, defending it, preaching it, suffering for it etc., .... but no actual scripture that stands by itself and says.... the gospel is ______ (the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus ?) or (repent, be baptized and receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking with other tongues) or (all of Jesus' words are the gospel)... or _____ ????

I find nowhere in the NT where the gospel is explicitly stated. It was a general concept that was understood, but never fully elucidated as to what it exactly was.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

KeptByTheWord 10-24-2016 10:56 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
However, there are MANY scriptures in Acts where the gospel is preached as is the resurrection of Jesus.

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Acts 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

And perhaps the most powerful of them all, here in Paul's own words, spoken in Ephesus to the elders of the church (Acts 20:17) where he recounts his life and what gospel he has preached:

Acts 20:18-24
18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

shazeep 10-24-2016 11:48 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
"Messenger of 'Well Done!'"

http://biblehub.com/greek/2097.htm

Amanah 10-24-2016 03:08 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
1 Corinthians 15(NIV)

15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

mfblume 10-24-2016 03:11 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
1Co 15:1-4....Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; ..(2)....By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. ..(3)....For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; ..(4)....And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Amanah 10-24-2016 03:23 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
1Co 15:3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

(1Co 15:4) And that Jesus was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

(Col 1:14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

(Joh 3:15) That whosoever believeth in Jesus should not perish, but have eternal life.

(Act 4:10) Be it known unto you ...that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom was crucified, whom God raised from the dead...

(Act 4:11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

(Act 4:12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father (God), but by me.

(Joh 3:5) Jesus answered, truely, truely, I say unto you, Except a person be born of water (Water Baptism, fully under) and of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Ghost), you cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Act 2:38) ...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission (forgiveness) of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(Act 2:39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

(Act 10:43) To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

(Act 10:44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

(Act 10:45) And they of the circumcision (Jews) which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles (non-Jews) also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(Act 10:46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

(Act 10:47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

(Act 10:48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus...

(Act 22:16) And now why wait you? arise, and be (water) baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord Jesus.

(Act 2:21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord Jesus shall be saved.

(Rom 2:4) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth you to repentance?

(Eph 1:13) In whom (Jesus) you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit (Ghost) of promise,...

(1Jn 2:25) And this is the promise that he (Jesus) hath promised us, even eternal life.

MarkBelosa 10-24-2016 05:18 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452233)
Seems a simple enough question, of course.

Back up your statement with scripture that supports the question.

1. The gospel is what saves us.

Romans 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2. The gospel is something that must be preached to every creature.

Mark 16:15-17 King James Version (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

3. The gospel is something you have to believe and obey.

2 Thessalonians 1:8King James Version (KJV)

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

4. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5. There is only one gospel - the one first preached by the apostles.

Galatians 1:6-9 King James Version (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

When the Holy Ghost was first poured out, Peter preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the crowd. (Acts 2:1-36)

When he was closing his first sermon, he proclaimed, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (that's in verse 36), how did the crowd respond? How did they believe? How did they accept Jesus as Lord and Christ? How did they obey the gospel?

We learn in the next verse (Acts 2:37) that they were convicted of their sins and asked Peter what they needed to do. Did Peter tell them to repeat a prayer? No. Did he assure them that it's enough to mentally "accept" the Lordship of Christ and "acknowledge" how he died and rose again to save us from sin? No.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That was his response. That verse, along with many other supporting scriptures show us that in order to be saved (gospel), we need to believe in Jesus Christ and identify with his death, burial and resurrection through repentance, baptism and receiving of the Holy Ghost.

Cracker Barrel 10-24-2016 05:59 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452296)
1. The gospel is what saves us.

Romans 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2. The gospel is something that must be preached to every creature.

Mark 16:15-17 King James Version (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

3. The gospel is something you have to believe and obey.

2 Thessalonians 1:8King James Version (KJV)

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

4. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;



2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5. There is only one gospel - the one first preached by the apostles.

Galatians 1:6-9 King James Version (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

When the Holy Ghost was first poured out, Peter preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the crowd. (Acts 2:1-36)

When he was closing his first sermon, he proclaimed, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (that's in verse 36), how did the crowd respond? How did they believe? How did they accept Jesus as Lord and Christ? How did they obey the gospel?

We learn in the next verse (Acts 2:37) that they were convicted of their sins and asked Peter what they needed to do. Did Peter tell them to repeat a prayer? No. Did he assure them that it's enough to mentally "accept" the Lordship of Christ and "acknowledge" how he died and rose again to save us from sin? No.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That was his response. That verse, along with many other supporting scriptures show us that in order to be saved (gospel), we need to believe in Jesus Christ and identify with his death, burial and resurrection through repentance, baptism and receiving of the Holy Ghost.


Can someone please get this guy a microphone !!

Amen!! Couldn't have said it better myself !

When I let the 10 toes on my feet hang off the front of my board tomorrow morning I'm gonna be thinking of you.

:highfive

shazeep 10-25-2016 07:34 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up

Godsdrummer 10-25-2016 07:44 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
G2098

εὐαγγέλιον
euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.

Mat_4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Seems to me we are stretching things out of meaning. Gospel was simply a message of good news. And the message of good news was simply that the kingdom of God had come.

How we stretch this into a salvational plan is beyond me.

shazeep 10-25-2016 08:17 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
"Well done!" :)

MarkBelosa 10-25-2016 09:07 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452331)
G2098

εὐαγγέλιον
euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.

Mat_4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Seems to me we are stretching things out of meaning. Gospel was simply a message of good news. And the message of good news was simply that the kingdom of God had come.

How we stretch this into a salvational plan is beyond me.

What do you think did it mean to Jesus' audience when He said that the kingdom of God has come?
How does one enter the kingdom of God?
How did the apostles interpret the Great Commission to spread the good news?
What can you say about each of the scriptural references to the gospel as being part of or associated with salvation?

mfblume 10-25-2016 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452331)
G2098

????????????
euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.

Mat_4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Seems to me we are stretching things out of meaning. Gospel was simply a message of good news. And the message of good news was simply that the kingdom of God had come.

How we stretch this into a salvational plan is beyond me.

The gospel is not the plan of salvation. The plan of salvation applies the gospel to each of us.

KeptByTheWord 10-25-2016 11:44 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
As demonstrated by multiple scriptures, the gospel preached essentially was this: the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

KeptByTheWord 10-25-2016 11:57 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452296)
1. The gospel is what saves us.

Romans 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2. The gospel is something that must be preached to every creature.

Mark 16:15-17 King James Version (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

3. The gospel is something you have to believe and obey.

2 Thessalonians 1:8King James Version (KJV)

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

4. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5. There is only one gospel - the one first preached by the apostles.

Galatians 1:6-9 King James Version (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Excellent! A very concise demonstration through scripture of what the gospel is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452296)
[I]When the Holy Ghost was first poured out, Peter preached the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ to the crowd. (Acts 2:1-36)

Yes indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452296)
When he was closing his first sermon, he proclaimed, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (that's in verse 36), how did the crowd respond? How did they believe? How did they accept Jesus as Lord and Christ? How did they obey the gospel?

We learn in the next verse (Acts 2:37) that they were convicted of their sins and asked Peter what they needed to do. Did Peter tell them to repeat a prayer? No. Did he assure them that it's enough to mentally "accept" the Lordship of Christ and "acknowledge" how he died and rose again to save us from sin? No.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That was his response. That verse, along with many other supporting scriptures show us that in order to be saved (gospel), we need to believe in Jesus Christ and identify with his death, burial and resurrection through repentance, baptism and receiving of the Holy Ghost.

Do you believe you need to speak in tongues to receive the GIFT of the HG?

good samaritan 10-25-2016 01:03 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452331)
G2098

εὐαγγέλιον
euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.

Mat_4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Seems to me we are stretching things out of meaning. Gospel was simply a message of good news. And the message of good news was simply that the kingdom of God had come.

How we stretch this into a salvational plan is beyond me.

Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mike Blume, He wasn't talking about a dispensationalist view of a millinial reign. Something being at hand means it is in our reach.

Quote:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus tells Nicodemus what must happen to become a part of that kingdom. The book of acts puts all that into practice. The plan of salvation is receiving and obeying the gospel of Christ.Faith, repentance, Spiritual and physical baptism envelops all of that through the blood of Jesus.

MarkBelosa 10-25-2016 03:30 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452360)
Excellent! A very concise demonstration through scripture of what the gospel is.



Yes indeed.



Do you believe you need to speak in tongues to receive the GIFT of the HG?

I believe that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost/receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Cracker Barrel 10-25-2016 03:55 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452379)
I believe that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost/receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Let the church say Aaaaammmeeenn!

Jito463 10-25-2016 05:50 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452360)
Do you believe you need to speak in tongues to receive the GIFT of the HG?

You keep flipping this around backwards. No one I know preaches that you NEED to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Ghost. Only that when you DO receive the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues. It's not just a matter of semantics, it's a matter of importance. The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.

MarkBelosa 10-25-2016 06:15 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463 (Post 1452387)
You keep flipping this around backwards. No one I know preaches that you NEED to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Ghost. Only that when you DO receive the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues. It's not just a matter of semantics, it's a matter of importance. The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.

Good response. I think that is the reason some people "seeking" the Holy Ghost "struggle." They want the experience - the tongues, but their hearts are probably not focused on seeking God (His Spirit). Can't blame them though, if that's how they were taught, i.e. to seek the sign.

Nothing wrong with tongues, in fact it is an important topic, being the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It's just that some people over-emphasize it, if not, give more attention to it than grace, faith and repentance.

If we want to talk about salvation, we don't go straight to a discussion of tongues. Some people get saved without them fully realizing what had happened to them. I mean, there are those who get convicted of their sins, repent and receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues without them knowing that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. They just learned of it after experiencing it. Of course, they get water-baptized afterwards. Can't have one without the other. :-)

KeptByTheWord 10-25-2016 06:54 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452389)
Good response. I think that is the reason some people "seeking" the Holy Ghost "struggle." They want the experience - the tongues, but their hearts are probably not focused on seeking God (His Spirit). Can't blame them though, if that's how they were taught, i.e. to seek the sign.

Nothing wrong with tongues, in fact it is an important topic, being the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It's just that some people over-emphasize it, if not, give more attention to it than grace, faith and repentance.

If we want to talk about salvation, we don't go straight to a discussion of tongues. Some people get saved without them fully realizing what had happened to them. I mean, there are those who get convicted of their sins, repent and receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues without them knowing that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. They just learned of it after experiencing it. Of course, they get water-baptized afterwards. Can't have one without the other. :-)

I agree with you here, Bro. Mark! Tongues should not be sought, as they are a sign that follow. And you are so right, many people I have known have received the gift of tongues without even knowing what they are. And many people I know have faked the gift of tongues because they could not ever receive them.

The emphasis in evangelizing should be the gospel. It should not be on the "tongues"... as that is a sign that will follow a believer, i.e. Mark 16:16-17.

It was never demonstrated through Acts that unbelievers seek the gift of tongues, but they were preached "the gospel" which we have already demonstrated through scripture what that is - essentially the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and signs will follow those that believe.

KeptByTheWord 10-25-2016 07:01 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463 (Post 1452387)
You keep flipping this around backwards. No one I know preaches that you NEED to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Ghost. Only that when you DO receive the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues. It's not just a matter of semantics, it's a matter of importance. The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.

What then of a believer who has sought for years to receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking in tongues, who has never received, and who resorts to speaking "fake" tongues, in order to get people off their back?

You see... this becomes a dangerous thing... this sign seeking.

I like Bro. Mark's way of looking at it. Seek the Lord Jesus, and not the sign.

good samaritan 10-25-2016 08:25 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452389)
Good response. I think that is the reason some people "seeking" the Holy Ghost "struggle." They want the experience - the tongues, but their hearts are probably not focused on seeking God (His Spirit). Can't blame them though, if that's how they were taught, i.e. to seek the sign.

Nothing wrong with tongues, in fact it is an important topic, being the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It's just that some people over-emphasize it, if not, give more attention to it than grace, faith and repentance.

If we want to talk about salvation, we don't go straight to a discussion of tongues. Some people get saved without them fully realizing what had happened to them. I mean, there are those who get convicted of their sins, repent and receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues without them knowing that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. They just learned of it after experiencing it. Of course, they get water-baptized afterwards. Can't have one without the other. :-)

Reminds me of Simon the Sorcerer who offered the apostles money for the power to lay hands on people and they receive the Holy Ghost. The apostles rebuked Simon saying his gold perishes with him to think that the gift could be purchased with money. Some people could seek the experience for who knows the reason, but the heart is what God looks at. As mentioned about Simon in Acts chapter 9.

It is not tongues that we seek, but it is what we should expect. We should be careful as ministers to not make tongues our focus. Many people are pressured to speak in tongues and that should not be. We should simply preach the word of faith and allow God to do it. It is God who is the one who gives us the Spirit in the first place. By making tongues the objective, it can actually encourage people to fake it.

mfblume 10-25-2016 08:40 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463 (Post 1452387)
The Holy Ghost is what's important, the tongues are simply the outward, initial evidence.

Exactly.

Jito463 10-25-2016 11:15 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452394)
What then of a believer who has sought for years to receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking in tongues, who has never received, and who resorts to speaking "fake" tongues, in order to get people off their back?

You see... this becomes a dangerous thing... this sign seeking.

I like Bro. Mark's way of looking at it. Seek the Lord Jesus, and not the sign.

You're right, and some do over emphasize the sign over the reason for it. Just because some people lose focus of what's important, doesn't mean that tongues as the initial evidence isn't true, it just means we need to be mindful that we keep our hearts on what really matters.

In any of my postings, have I ever suggested seeking after tongues? No, because I fervently believe that tongues simply will occur when one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost for the first time.

Don't confuse cause with affect.

The Bible teaches us not to seek after signs, and this is true. It does not say, however, that we should ignore them or not be mindful of them, it just says not to seek them.

votivesoul 10-26-2016 12:18 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
There is a lot in this post, as it pertains to Holy Scripture that is right on, within context.

But I think the original question still hasn't been answered properly.

I think all that has been so far shared, as it pertains to Holy Scripture, are merely elements of the Gospel.

But as Godsdrummer pointed out, the Gospel is a message.

The message is more than all the quoted verses. Yes, it involves the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah. Yes, it involves the power of God, and yes, by it, people are saved.

But these are mere elements. To me, the actual message of the Gospel is this:

Matthew 26:28,

Quote:

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The good message is that through the blood of our Lord Jesus, people can experience a remission of their sins.

If a lawyer showed up at your door and explained to you how you had a long lost uncle that you never knew, but who knew who you were, who had recently died, and had written you into his will, all of this would be fine and dandy, but still, only mere elements of why the lawyer has come to visit you.

The actual message of such a fiction is this:

Your uncle left you a sizable sum of money from his estate, to the tune of $10 million.

All of the those intricacies and necessities of the law and the will are an important part of the overall story. But the message is "You're rich!".

So with Christ and the Gospel. The death, burial, resurrection, power of God, salvation, and etc. are all important and part of the overall story. But the message is "You're forgiven!".

To me, that's the Gospel, or "Good Message".

shazeep 10-26-2016 08:33 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452394)
What then of a believer who has sought for years to receive the gift of the HG with the evidence of speaking in tongues, who has never received, and who resorts to speaking "fake" tongues, in order to get people off their back?

You see... this becomes a dangerous thing... this sign seeking.

I like Bro. Mark's way of looking at it. Seek the Lord Jesus, and not the sign.

amen! when you do that, aren't you going to be speaking in tongues anyway, as someone has already said? just maybe with a different end in mind? i tell you, i look for speaking in tongues, as a sign in people. Or rather, i don't 'look for it' like 'require it,' but am alert for it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan (Post 1452404)
It is not tongues that we seek, but it is what we should expect.

hey, have you ever had a new believer who evidenced that they just 'got it' right away--as sometimes happens--whose old peers would not testify that they now 'spoke in tongues'? :)
even if you would not have defined it like that?

shazeep 10-26-2016 08:44 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1452415)
There is a lot in this post, as it pertains to Holy Scripture that is right on, within context.

But I think the original question still hasn't been answered properly.

I think all that has been so far shared, as it pertains to Holy Scripture, are merely elements of the Gospel.

But as Godsdrummer pointed out, the Gospel is a message.

The message is more than all the quoted verses. Yes, it involves the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah. Yes, it involves the power of God, and yes, by it, people are saved.

But these are mere elements. To me, the actual message of the Gospel is this:

Matthew 26:28,



The good message is that through the blood of our Lord Jesus, people can experience a remission of their sins.

If a lawyer showed up at your door and explained to you how you had a long lost uncle that you never knew, but who knew who you were, who had recently died, and had written you into his will, all of this would be fine and dandy, but still, only mere elements of why the lawyer has come to visit you.

The actual message of such a fiction is this:

Your uncle left you a sizable sum of money from his estate, to the tune of $10 million.

All of the those intricacies and necessities of the law and the will are an important part of the overall story. But the message is "You're rich!".

So with Christ and the Gospel. The death, burial, resurrection, power of God, salvation, and etc. are all important and part of the overall story. But the message is "You're forgiven!".

To me, that's the Gospel, or "Good Message".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDjNbzJ5v8U

Godsdrummer 10-26-2016 08:54 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1452415)
So with Christ and the Gospel. The death, burial, resurrection, power of God, salvation, and etc. are all important and part of the overall story. But the message is "You're forgiven!".

To me, that's the Gospel, or "Good Message".

I agree that is the Good message. But how that good message is related to individuals looks different and is a little more than just that you are forgiven. Rather more and two the point how and what is the relation to the kingdom of God.

In fact the Jews were not looking to forgiveness of sins as much as a king, and kingdom. After all their sins were forgiven through the sacrifice of the law, in a manner of speaking.

We cannot get away from the message both Christ instructed his disciples to proclaim and John proclaimed. The kingdom of God has come.

In Acts 2 Peter pointed out two facts, first that what they had received was what Joel had prophesied. Two that the Jesus that they had crucified God had made both Lord and Christ and sat on the throne of David, fulfilling the prophesy made by David of old. Hence we have the preaching of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Try and get this next statement. These were the ones physically responsible for the crucifixion. When they ask "what must we do" it was in response to that fact. And it was to that fact they were commanded to repent.

Neither to the Samaritans nor the house of Cornelius was this direct command to repent preached rather simply Christ and his kingdom and belief in him. Simply put the Gospel was that Christ had died rose again and his Kingdom had come. And belief in that was entrance into his kingdom.

MarkBelosa 10-26-2016 11:55 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452446)
I agree that is the Good message. But how that good message is related to individuals looks different and is a little more than just that you are forgiven. Rather more and two the point how and what is the relation to the kingdom of God.

In fact the Jews were not looking to forgiveness of sins as much as a king, and kingdom. After all their sins were forgiven through the sacrifice of the law, in a manner of speaking.

We cannot get away from the message both Christ instructed his disciples to proclaim and John proclaimed. The kingdom of God has come.

In Acts 2 Peter pointed out two facts, first that what they had received was what Joel had prophesied. Two that the Jesus that they had crucified God had made both Lord and Christ and sat on the throne of David, fulfilling the prophesy made by David of old. Hence we have the preaching of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Try and get this next statement. These were the ones physically responsible for the crucifixion. When they ask "what must we do" it was in response to that fact. And it was to that fact they were commanded to repent.

Neither to the Samaritans nor the house of Cornelius was this direct command to repent preached rather simply Christ and his kingdom and belief in him. Simply put the Gospel was that Christ had died rose again and his Kingdom had come. And belief in that was entrance into his kingdom.

I can agree with you, partially, and I like that we are trying to take Scriptures in the proper context. But are you saying that the message of repentance is not an essential part of the preaching of the gospel and entrance to the kingdom of God?

What about the following Scriptures where John the Baptist and our Lord Jesus preached repentance and faith in the gospel?


Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:14-15 King James Version (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Also, when Jesus gave the Great Commission, did he say that the message of repentance was to be preached ONLY to the crowd in Jerusalem?

Luke 24:46-47 King James Version (KJV)

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Just because the word "repent" or "repentance" was not mentioned explicitly when Phillip preached to the Samaritans and Peter to the Gentiles, doesn't mean that they didn't. Jesus's instruction was to preach the same message to all all types of people, everywhere.

Finally, look at this passage in Acts 11. When Peter told the story to his Jewish brothers in Jerusalem, of how Cornelius and his household got saved, they associated repentance with the new birth experience.


Acts 11:17-18King James Version (KJV)

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles all received and obeyed the same plan of salvation, wouldn't you agree?

Now I know this thread is about defining the word gospel. I don't think we can talk about it and not talk about a salvation plan simply because it is "the power of God unto salvation." It's not like we're stretching it to mean something totally different or irrelevant.

Yes, we can all agree that it means good news, and as votivesoul mentioned there are certain elements involved. But for the purpose of this conversation, can we just all agree that it is centered on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

What that means to the Jews and Gentiles, whether as groups of people or as individuals, can probably be worded in several ways, but can we all agree that:

The gospel is God's answer to the problem of sin. It's good news because it provides us a way (the only way in fact) to enter the kingdom of God, and get deliverance from the penalty and power of sin. It involves faith in Jesus Christ, acknowledging Him as Lord, God and King and believing that He has paid the price for our redemption when he died, got buried and rose from the grave.

I could go on and try to "stretch" it to say that involves repentance and the New Birth experience, but I think I have already my point. There are plenty of supporting scriptures to prove that it is the Biblical way of identifying oneself with the gospel. How else can one "obey" it?

KeptByTheWord 10-26-2016 08:34 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463 (Post 1452414)
You're right, and some do over emphasize the sign over the reason for it. Just because some people lose focus of what's important, doesn't mean that tongues as the initial evidence isn't true, it just means we need to be mindful that we keep our hearts on what really matters.

In any of my postings, have I ever suggested seeking after tongues? No, because I fervently believe that tongues simply will occur when one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost for the first time.

Don't confuse cause with affect.

The Bible teaches us not to seek after signs, and this is true. It does not say, however, that we should ignore them or not be mindful of them, it just says not to seek them.

I've never said that tongues are not to follow as a sign of the HG.

I have said that seeking the sign is the wrong approach. Preach the gospel, the message of the apostles, and signs will follow.

KeptByTheWord 10-26-2016 08:39 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452464)
Now I know this thread is about defining the word gospel. I don't think we can talk about it and not talk about a salvation plan simply because it is "the power of God unto salvation." It's not like we're stretching it to mean something totally different or irrelevant.

Yes, we can all agree that it means good news, and as votivesoul mentioned there are certain elements involved. But for the purpose of this conversation, can we just all agree that it is centered on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

What that means to the Jews and Gentiles, whether as groups of people or as individuals, can probably be worded in several ways, but can we all agree that:

The gospel is God's answer to the problem of sin. It's good news because it provides us a way (the only way in fact) to enter the kingdom of God, and get deliverance from the penalty and power of sin. It involves faith in Jesus Christ, acknowledging Him as Lord, God and King and believing that He has paid the price for our redemption when he died, got buried and rose from the grave.

I could go on and try to "stretch" it to say that involves repentance and the New Birth experience, but I think I have already my point. There are plenty of supporting scriptures to prove that it is the Biblical way of identifying oneself with the gospel. How else can one "obey" it?

I've always thought it was interesting that Paul mentioned that he preached the gospel of uncircumcision, while Peter preached the gospel of circumcision. It seems that different approaches of preaching the gospel were used to reach different two different groups of people, the Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Yet, in every reference to anyone being saved, repentance/baptism are mentioned and so we can conclude that salvation must include those two elements, even as Mark 16:16 states. Signs followed those that believed, without a doubt.

Godsdrummer 10-26-2016 11:45 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa (Post 1452464)
I can agree with you, partially, and I like that we are trying to take Scriptures in the proper context. But are you saying that the message of repentance is not an essential part of the preaching of the gospel and entrance to the kingdom of God?

What about the following Scriptures where John the Baptist and our Lord Jesus preached repentance and faith in the gospel?

I like how you have responded to my post, with grace and a spirit of discussion and not confrontation.
That being said, I feel we must first define the meaning of repentance. I believe if you look the work up in the Greek we can agree it means a change of direction. What it does not mean IMO is a declaration of being sorry for sin. That is a given. When one changes direction, that should be done for the very fact that you believe the way you once were was wrong and you are turning over a new leaf.
To keep this as brief as possible, I will not present scripture, I think we all can quote the scriptures that would pertain to what I am going to say as I say it.
The cross took away sin, period. For all the world. In other words, my sins have been forgiven already it is a done fact because that is what the blood of the cross did, for all mankind. Does that mean every one is going to heaven? Of course not. One must accept forgiveness by faith. And here is where I differ from most apostolic's. When we accept by faith that we are forgiven we are "saved". We go on to receive baptism as a personal declaration of our belief in Christ, and we will receive the promise of the HG.

Quote:

Now I know this thread is about defining the word gospel. I don't think we can talk about it and not talk about a salvation plan simply because it is "the power of God unto salvation." It's not like we're stretching it to mean something totally different or irrelevant.
As I just gave my belief of what I believe is the salvational plan. Let me add further thoughts. When the house of Cornelius received the good news. They were given the message of the resurrection and death of Christ. With the words all that believe will receive the HG.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Now let me ask you to take the words of Peter in chapter 11 and what happened as described here in chapter 10, can you honestly say that repentance as defined by Apostolics, was required? Can the HG be given to a person that has not had their sin remitted?

Quote:

Yes, we can all agree that it means good news, and as votivesoul mentioned there are certain elements involved. But for the purpose of this conversation, can we just all agree that it is centered on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

What that means to the Jews and Gentiles, whether as groups of people or as individuals, can probably be worded in several ways, but can we all agree that:

The gospel is God's answer to the problem of sin. It's good news because it provides us a way (the only way in fact) to enter the kingdom of God, and get deliverance from the penalty and power of sin. It involves faith in Jesus Christ, acknowledging Him as Lord, God and King and believing that He has paid the price for our redemption when he died, got buried and rose from the grave.

I can agree with the bolded part, it comes down to belief.

Quote:

I could go on and try to "stretch" it to say that involves repentance and the New Birth experience, but I think I have already my point. There are plenty of supporting scriptures to prove that it is the Biblical way of identifying oneself with the gospel. How else can one "obey" it?[/B][/COLOR]
As I said above yes it involves repentance in the element of making a change in doing right when you are doing wrong. And Baptism is how one identifies with Christ. In other words IMO repentance and baptism are subsequent to salvation.

Romans 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452479)
I've always thought it was interesting that Paul mentioned that he preached the gospel of uncircumcision, while Peter preached the gospel of circumcision. It seems that different approaches of preaching the gospel were used to reach different two different groups of people, the Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Yet, in every reference to anyone being saved, repentance/baptism are mentioned and so we can conclude that salvation must include those two elements, even as Mark 16:16 states. Signs followed those that believed, without a doubt.

As I presented above, concerning repentance and baptism, both were what one did after belief. Faith was what "saved". To say the Samaritans were not saved having been baptized believing, or the house of Cornelius were not saved when they receive the HG before baptism is in MO twisting and adding to the word of God.

MarkBelosa 10-27-2016 01:06 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
@GD Will respond to your post tomorrow, I'm just curious to know more about your thoughts on the new birth experience as described in John 3?

shazeep 10-27-2016 07:20 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452492)
I like how you have responded to my post, with grace and a spirit of discussion and not confrontation.

ya, that is a gift. i wish i could do that. i pray that i can do that. But if i don't then go and do that, what good is my prayer?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452492)
That being said, I feel we must first define the meaning of repentance. I believe if you look the work up in the Greek we can agree it means a change of direction. What it does not mean IMO is a declaration of being sorry for sin. That is a given. When one changes direction, that should be done for the very fact that you believe the way you once were was wrong and you are turning over a new leaf.

nice. hence, "rebound." Being sorry is great. Saying you're sorry is what we do at each other to indicate rebound, and receive a blessing of forgiveness. 2 minutes, max. Not even that long, right. But if you then come tell me you are sorry again ten minutes later, how does that help? So, there is no penance you can do to get any more forgiveness. i must exhibit a changed mind, a different direction, 180 degrees away from my offense, in order to do that.

mfblume 10-27-2016 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1452478)

I've never said that tongues are not to follow as a sign of the HG.

I have said that seeking the sign is the wrong approach. Preach the gospel, the message of the apostles, and signs will follow.

Amen!!

mfblume 10-27-2016 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1452492)

As I presented above, concerning repentance and baptism, both were what one did after belief. Faith was what "saved". To say the Samaritans were not saved having been baptized believing, or the house of Cornelius were not saved when they receive the HG before baptism is in MO twisting and adding to the word of God.

To say they were saved before the baptisms of water and spirit is also adding to the word. The word just presents water baptism and spirit baptism with faith. It simply doesn't say in those instances when salvation occurred.

Godsdrummer 10-27-2016 08:54 AM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1452505)
To say they were saved before the baptisms of water and spirit is also adding to the word. The word just presents water baptism and spirit baptism with faith. It simply doesn't say in those instances when salvation occurred.

Actually I believe you are wrong, as we have skirted this issue several times in the past. First let me say I don't believe one must put two passages together from two or more books or letters to build a doctrine. In doing so is IMO one way we add to the word of God.

John 3:5 is a prime example When Nic. ask about entering his mothers womb a second time, he directed his answer to that question. Baptism in never spoken in scripture as a birth ever. To ignore the many passages that say "he that believeth on him shall be saved"

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

shag 10-27-2016 12:07 PM

Re: What is the GOSPEL?
 
I have friends that belief in Jesus the Christ, and the message of the cross, but have not made any commitment toward following Christ. They surely are not born again. However, Loren, you are more saying that one must "believe"-defined as "trusting in, clinging to, and relying on, (Amplified-believe-Jn 3:16), "a commitment from the heart, brought about by faith/believing in, correct?


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