Whaaaaaaatt???? What's happening in Canada??
 

ANyone know why it was removed ?
what did i do now ????????????? always something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know where it went to but I read it. :)

I've not heard anything at all about the Canadian brethren wanting to go it on their own and become the UPC of Canada, and I would have very mixed feelings about it happening.

It is true

the meetings are being held in canada. i first reported St.L

Wrongo Thado!

Somebody wants it! The majority in Canada are against it!

End of story.

They should wait and vote in favor of the TV resolution, then break away! :D

Aha! :)

This sounds more like it!

wrongo on what ?? you are saying there are no meetings going on ??

you are wrong if you are saying that . I don't know who is for it or who is against up there - that i do not know. in fact, I was wondering that myself

I'll tell you this, My wife is against the UPCI in Canada breaking away. I hear tell, that the main reason for the idea being proposed, was for tax purposes. Anyone know for sure?

I think some folk are in denial about this -NO NAMES!!!

I pray this does not happen. Canada is a very important part of the UPCI. I don't think this would be good for anyone. This would weaken both the UPCI of Canada as well as the US UPCI. We are stronger by remaining together.

WELL!! "someone"finally got the nerve up to post on this topic!!! NO NAMES MENTIONED :lol

Tennesseans are agin it! :)

I totally agree!!!!

I'm not sure I totally agree but probably mostly agree.

I'd love to hear Maple Leaf or Wally chime in on this.

Do you know wether or not it's because of tax reasons?

I have no idea but I seriously can't see this happening. There are such strong ties and bond with the American brethren along with other important reasons as well.

it's the canadians who are wanting this felicity
not the americans

Thad-amongus>

Here is your rules you checked off when you joined.

The owners of Apostolic Friends Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.


You DID NOT verify this with anyone in Canada, and apparently those in Western Canada say this is false. :canada

I as well would like to hear From Maple Leaf, or Wally (if he is still here)

Did you lose your phone again, or you simply don't take my calls?!?

:telephone

Like I said, a few may discuss it, even fewer want it---the majority like a strong connection to HQ'S and our American brethren.

As it is already we have a lot of "autononmy" already.

Someone proposed a "sister organization" the vast majority are against it and frankly, are offended that it is being proposed.

Why would anyone feel that the Canadians becoming nationaized would be "breaking away" from the UPCI? It is supposed to be the goal of every missionary to bring the nation where they are serving to nationalization as soon as that country has enough ministers and churches, along with qualified leaders to direct the affairs of the national organization.

In the early 90's, while serving as Atlantic District Foreign Missions Director, I suggested that Canada should be its own National Organization and support its own missionaries. (At that time a C$, by the time it actually reached the missionary was worth about 65 cents.) Of course that flew like a lead balloon. :)

I disagree that the UPCI and UPC Canada would be weakened by Canada being on its own. The PAOC has been independent from the AOG in the USA from the outset and it is the largest Pentecostal organization in Canada by far. The ACOP is a Canadian organization with its own headquarters in Calgary, it's own missions department, its own accredited Bible college that had 120 students last year, etc.

Does anyone know of any other country in the world that has as many churches and ministers as Canada that has not become nationalized? Canada has its own culture, is a bilingual nation, is already registered as a charitable organization, has an annual Canadian Conference, etc.

I believe the Canadian UPC would benefit from being nationalized. This is not the same as "breaking away". I would call it "growing up". :)

What happened is that they voted in a General Sup position like in most other countries....go home nothing to see here...oh and btw, thanks for not asking someone who attends the church where the meeting is being held, sheesh. Beginning to feel left out around AFF, grrrrr! (Except Boom)

Monkeyman, thanks for the information! I feel this is a step in the right direction. It's time for UPC of Canada to come into its own and establish its "national" identity versus the individual provinces simply relating to the American organization as "districts" within that organization.

BTW, I'll be seeing you in a couple weeks at the Summer Summit! Who are the speakers this year?

Wow!

This is a pretty major news flash - "a General Sup position like in most other countries."

The election of a Canadian Superintendent would be a major structural change in the UPCC.

Who was elected General Superintendent of Canada?

What will happen to the position of Executive Presbyter for Canada that Bro. Granville MacKenzie now holds?

Will the UPCC continue to have representation on the Executive Board of the UPCI?

This post makes sense, if I understand the thread right.

Canada would still be a part of the UPCI, right? Just independent from the states.

Are any other countries like that now, or is Bro Haney superintendent over all countries?

I haven't posted in a while but all that is being done is being done right now is for the sake of evangelism in Canada .I believe this is a step in the right direction!

Monkey
I was at the Canada Conference as well. This is not what happened. Canada has an executive presbyter (Granville MacKenzie) who was elected at the General Conference. A letter and poll were sent out by three men asking if ministers would be in favor of the executive presbyter becoming an assistant general superintendent or if ministers would be in favor of a separate organization. These three gentlemen, while fine elders, had no official standing to do so and in my opinion do not have much of a constituency to back them.

There is no significant movement (it would probably be safe to say "no movement") to create a "sister" organization that would break off from the UPCI. Canada already has the UPC of Canada which serves a role in complying with government of Canada regulations regarding the flow of money out of Canada. It has not and does not serve as a ministerial organization.

Canada has just over 200 UPCI churches, the majority of which are in two districts - Ontario and Atlantic. In patriotic terms a separate sister organization is appealing, in practical financial and operational terms it loses it's luster and becomes just another layer of bureaucracy.

Hope this helps. There is no story here.

Truenorth

Maple Leaf
Stop making fun and asking inconvenient questions.
Truenorth

True North,

My sources seem to agree with your version of events. Would you say that while a UPC of Canada sounds appetizing to some, that current situations and logistics make it undesireable?

With only 200 churches in Canada which belong to UPCI, to become it's own organization would cut off it's nose to spite it's face. There is very little fellowship anyway.

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni,

You have grasped the situation perfectly.

Hey Nanook!

I happen to know that Bro. Monkey has an inside track. I'll wait for his answer.


May I ask one more question: "When will the American church be nationalized?"

Monk may not have understood the Exec Presbyter was not a Canadian GS. This is forgivable.

Typical of yet another UNCONFIRMED Thad-flash was the deleted thread and the opening statements of this one.

Thank you for the clarification!

:canada

The only election at a Canadian Conference is the ratification of the board of directors (the Canadian Superintendents.)

The UPC of Canada is roughly the same size as the ACOP, perhaps a little bit smaller. We seem to function very well on a national level. I personally believe an independent Canadian organization would serve the best interest of future growth in the Canadian church.

I would be interested in specific commentary on the points I have made in the earlier post. Why would Canadians not want to be a national body like every other UPC cosnstituency? Have they become so dependent upon Hazelwood that they simply don't believe in their own potential?

:girlpopcorn Good question...would be interested to see the comments you get on this one.

I would say TB; there are many more benefits to being in a larger organization than just fellowship. There is access to much more resources isn't there?

Blessings, Rhoni

I for one am for having our own national body in Canada.

2006 Canadian populatio-33,098,932
2006 UPC churches 223
1 church for every 148,426 of the population

2006 American population-295,934,134
UPC churches -4277
1 church for every 69,192 of the population

The production rate in Canada is 2.15 times slower than the US

This is purely an academic discussion for me, but one that interests me enough that I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of conversation.

The first point that should be clarified is that Canada is not a mission field to be nationalized, but a partner in the UPCI. The UPCI is not an American organization, but a joint Canadian/American organization.

It could as easily be argued that the American churches need to be nationalized as to argue for the nationalization of the Canadian churches. The UPCI is an international organization, not a national body.

Removing the Canadian component from the UPCI would limit opportunity for Canadian missionaries. There are 15+ Canadian missionaries in the UPCI, with an approximate total annual budget of 1.8+ million Canadian dollars. The total Missions giving for the Canadian churches, for the last year reported on UPCI.org was 1.2 million Canadian dollars. Canada does not produce enough missions revenue to fund Canadian missionaries.

An independent UPCC would be faced with the choice of reducing the number of missionaries, or slashing the budgets of the existing missionaries.

The argument could be made that Canadians have been ineffective in reaching their nation with the resources made available to them by the UPCI, and that a separation from those resources would be disastrous to Canadian evangelism.

I would be interested to know if the Home Missions giving by Canadian churches would be enough to fund even a single metro missionary.

Canada is so large geographically and has such a low population density that a separate Canadian organization would be ineffective in providing fellowship.

The United Pentecostal church in Canada is an Eastern organization. A full 75% of its churches, and an even larger percentage of its constituents live east of the Manitoba/Ontario border. For most Canadian United Pentecostals, Hazelwood is closer than the ACOP headquarters in Calgary, Alberta, and, for those in New Brunswick, Hazelwood is more than 2000 KMs less driving than Calgary.