Bott '14
 

Wish I could be there! I attended BOTT during most of the 90s and enjoyed each year.

Re: Bott '14
 

Doesn't look like they are having the services online this year.

Re: Bott '14
 

Yes it's online

Re: Bott '14
 

Re: Bott '14
 

I don't believe the BOTT services are online. I checked yesterday during the day but it wasn't online. The schedule on the link you posted just has the Sunday services listed as upcoming.

I do wish they had the services online.

Re: Bott '14
 

Are you not getting 'connect' links at that link?

Re: Bott '14
 

When I click the link Prax posted, I see a "Coming up Next" with the Sunday AM and PM service listed. No "Connect" button or link.

I tried yesterday at POA's website, nothing there either.

Re: Bott '14
 

BOTT is a bit overrated in my opininon. It seems that all the sermons are the same. Just saying...

Re: Bott '14
 

Have you attended a BOTT conference? It's a great conference for Pastors and leaders. What do you mean by "all the sermons are the same?"

Re: Bott '14
 

The speakers all use the Bible as their reference point. :heeheehee

Re: Bott '14
 

:lol
If the speakers wore t-shirts and ripped jeans, sat on stools, and gave a vanilla creme cupcake message, BOTT would be more popular with JS. :nod

Re: Bott '14
 

or...........

Re: Bott '14
 

Is that TD Jakes and LL Cool J? Yeah, something like that might work. :lol

Re: Bott '14
 

To be fair I've never been to one, but for years I have either wathced online or via DVD every sermon from every service and the panels they have for questions and such for roughly 10 years. Some sermons were good, but they all end up to be a kind of "rally the troops" type of thing.

Re: Bott '14
 

I am not talking about how they dress so much. Although I am sure it is a fashion show there with who wears the best suits and shoes or whatever. Any how... Also, I don't like vanilla creme cupcakes.

Re: Bott '14
 

Fair enough. Consider the audience though. BOTT is for Pastors and other leaders. Men and women who spend their year preaching, teaching, and expending themselves in other ways. This is refreshing for them. It's a few days where they can be encouraged and challenged.

Is "rally the troops" a bad thing? It's a war-time slogan which referred to pep talks given to unite the troops for a common cause.

If ever there is time to "rally the troops," it's now. Pastors are under intense pressure in this day and age. It's a thankless job. Instead of encouragement and support, most Pastors only get criticism and hate. I've read of 2 or 3 Pastors who have committed suicide in the past few months. They need a "rally the troops" message.

Re: Bott '14
 

There's little practical value to conferences like these. An emotional high doesn't mitigate the damage inflicted by unrealistic expectations, a flawed message and an increasingly uninterested world.

Re: Bott '14
 

Try telling that to the one's who actually attend the conference.

Re: Bott '14
 

And then talk to them a month or two afterward. I wonder if any of those suicides you mentioned attended this sort of conference?

Re: Bott '14
 

:dogpat

Re: Bott '14
 

I went to BOTT a few years back, and yes it is overrated. It is not practical to the audience attending in my opinion. If you have 2,500 - 3,000 preachers/evangelists/pastors why not gear the conference toward their needs instead of cramming in 2 preachers per service so no one preacher is "offended" that they didn't get asked to preach BOTT?

What about break-out sessions, evangelism tools, classes on church finances? I mean POA is a well-oiled machine and that didn't happen by accident. Why not use and market the model that built POA and instruct those that come and attend on matters like these? Why not have classes available to help reach the homeless, orphaned or widowed in their city so they can fulfill more of a purpose for Christ? Why not have a session for younger ministers who feel that God is calling them to plant churches? Give them instructions on small groups, structuring your non-profit corporation, how to purchase insurance, etc.?

I am fine with good preaching, but make the conference more practical to the church of 2014. But no, it is the same thing over and over. Think I am kidding, if any of you are on Twitter and are somewhat connected to anyone attending the conference, here is a popular quote just to show you instead of really making a difference to the audience, agendas are still being pushed. You all know with this quote what the message was about, no need to divulge:

"My personal holiness is the best gift that I can give to Jesus"

Re: Bott '14
 

They're not worried about preachers being offended they're not included. Mike Williams and TF Tenney are not preaching this year. They used to have more in the morning/afternoon part. It's actually been reduced this year from previous years when I went in the 90s.

All good ideas, but it's not geared to be a seminar-style event. That's what General Conference has become.

Yeah, shame on them for preaching the Bible over and over and over....

Scandalous!

I'd like to know the context and message in which this quote was given. And yes, it's important to know that information before making any assumptions about its meaning.

Re: Bott '14
 

What do you think the quote is about?

Re: Bott '14
 

There is no such thing as personal holiness. Holiness (by Greek/Hebrew definition) means piety or separation unto God. Paul gave us what true holiness entails in Ephesians 4:24-32 which says:

24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. 29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Holiness means there are things that I do after I receive the Spirit to separate myself unto God. It all has to do with actions, speech and the heart. So with that being said, the term "personal holiness" is not Biblical because we are unholy man and partake or inherit holiness from God at Spirit baptism. Holiness is God's attribute and therefore cannot become "personal" for any of us, because it is the very essence of God. That's why He said, "be ye holy, for I am holy".

But what I glean from the man's quote is this - he is referring to what he feels are a set of standards that are corporate in setting but have become "personal" to him because he received a revelation of holiness (in regard to standards). So, he thinks that this revelation received and the choice to make the set of standards his own, is the most pleasing thing to God that he can do. This goes against the Word, because loving one another (Agape) is the best gift that I can give to Jesus because He said the greatest commandment is to love the Lord God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Re: Bott '14
 

I see what you're saying, and even agree that Holiness is of God and not our own; however, the scripture you quoted above is quite personal. It's not that holiness is of our own, but that it's been applied to us. The scripture above is personal. Even what you wrote below it, "Holiness means there are things that I do..." That's personal, wouldn't you agree?

That's amazing! Seriously. To get all of that just from one single sentence of an entire message is really incredible. It may well be that he's talking about outward dress standards, but I'd still like to know the context and message before trying to analyze what he meant by a single quote.

:thumbsup I agree...though a commandment is something that must be followed, and a gift is something given without being forced.

Re: Bott '14
 

No, I do not agree that Ephesians 4:24-32 is personal (it is a corporate lesson given to the church by God through Paul), letting them know how to be holy or possess holiness in their life. It can only be achieved after we are endowed with the Spirit of God and thereby imparted with holiness. Yes, I said "there are things I do..." but I can only do them through the holiness that was given unto me, not because I have made it personal. Holiness is not a revelation to receive, it is an impartation given by God.

I guess what I am boiling it down to is this - I saw some other quotes from the same preacher during that message talking about those who "lost" their holiness standards and then I saw the quote I put in my comment about it being personal. It lead me to believe that this preacher is equating a standard of dress or a certain look to God's true holiness (it is not by any stretch of the imagination). I cannot find the other quote or I would add it, I do not want to incorrectly quote the man since I cannot find it.

Re: Bott '14
 

yes. at the far right in that box, see 'connect,' with two, currently red links. when they start ULing to the site, those will become good links--in theory, anyway.

Re: Bott '14
 

Pretty much dead on. If Jeff Arnold didn't have his episode, he wouldn't have new material.

Re: Bott '14
 

BOTT's best days are behind them. It doesn't help Stockton schedules their indoctrination love fest about the same time.

That must be why BOTT is packed out year after year. :doh

Re: Bott '14
 

Re: Bott '14
 

The size of the audience is not indicative of the quality of a conference. Many people show up just because its their trip to the upci Mecca.

The Rolling Stones still sell out stadiums. They haven't had a hit song in years.

Re: Bott '14
 

The message was entitled, "The First Trip Behind the Veil."

You wrote: "You all know with this quote what the message was about, no need to divulge." From the litany of quotes, I would say you couldn't be more wrong.

I used "#BOTT" and "@sogleason" to look up tweets, then spent a lot of time going through literally hundreds of tweets trying to find the one you posted. I found one tweet of that quote. There were a few other tweets similar to it. It was not the most popular quote tweeted from the message.

• "A minister's personal life of holiness is his greatest gift to God, his family, his church, his brethren, and his world."
  
• "The greatest gift I can give to God is my personal holiness, consecration, and right spirit."
  
• "My personal holiness is the greatest gift I can give my family, my church, and my world."

Here are some other quotes....again, I'd like to hear/see the message in its entirety before claiming to know exactly what the message was about.

• "Get your eyes off your brother/sister -- they aren't your goal for holiness. God is."
  
• "A true revival will not bring you closer to the world. True revival will always draw you closer to God." (re-tweeted many times)
  
• "Real revival never celebrates or exalts the flesh; real revival always consumes the flesh on God's altar." (re-tweeted several times)
  
• "Holiness is holistic, refusing to be compartmentalized. Nothing in your life is worship, unless all of your life is holy."
  
• "If you're not having revival, your family won't have revival." (re-tweeted several times)
  
• If I don't have a personal revival, our church can't have corporate revival."
  
• "There is a profound connection between holiness and revival."
  
• "A minister's personal revival is a holiness issue! In every revival there has always been a desire to get closer to God."
  
• "Before the priest can make atonement for the congregation, he must make atonement for himself."
  
• "Yesterday's anointing is just that."
  
• "Prayerlessness for a preacher is not only sinful, but it's arrogance."
  
• "Authentic revival will not lead you to false doctrine. Authentic revival will draw you to truth." (re-tweeted many times)
  
• "A true revival will take the world out of you."
  
• "In the Old Testament, God required more of the priest than the people."
  
• "As leaders, we cannot lead anyone into the Holy of Holies until we ourselves have been there first."
  
• "Holiness unto the Lord should impact every area of our life."
  
• "A Heaven sent revival will always be followed by a passion for holiness."
  
• "A ministerial license is not a stop being a Christian Card."
  
• "You can be anyone you want in cyberspace but you can't fool God."
  
• "Don't get seduced into thinking you can make it in ministry without prayer."
  
• Azusa Street prophecy said 'in the last days people will worship a God they don't even pray to,' we must pray!"
  
• "Holiness is a revival issue."
  
• "Giving to missions is a holiness issue."
  
• "It's a holiness issue when our cars cost more than we have given to missions in the last five years."
  
• "The reason delusion feels like revelation is that they both come from God." (There was a whole thread on this here...Gleason must read AFF!)
  
• "Have we lowered the expectations of the ministry to the point that they only have to be moral and we're satisfied?"
  
• "I have a fear we are dumbing down the expectation of the ministry."
  
• "Every revival, Biblically and historically, has involved personal and corporate holiness. Revival and holiness are inseparable."
  
• "The profile of moral failure in the ministry looks like this: 1. Isolation 2. No sense of accountability 3. No prayer life."
  
• "The fruit of revival only comes through the cost of consecration."

I'm going to go out on a limb here, because I haven't heard/seen the full message yet....this was not a message on standards, as was claimed previously.

Again, I haven't heard the full message yet; but based on the tweets above, IMO it's safe to say you were way off with your original claim. It's important to know the context and content.

It's obvious that you really didn't know what the message was about. :lol

Re: Bott '14
 

I find it funny that n david defends a conference for an organization that he is no longer a part of. It's craziness...

Re: Bott '14
 

So it's not about the number of people who attend, now it's about the quality of the conference. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not surprised you have a low opinion of BOTT. You're not alone in the low opinion of BOTT, but definitely in the minority compared to the thousands who attend and are blessed by it.

Landmark is next week, but what does that matter?

Re: Bott '14
 

It's not craziness. I have many friends who are still a part of the UPC. Also, I love the Mangun's and POA. Their reach extends to non-UPC ministers like Jentezen Franklin, John Maxwell and others.

BOTT is a great conference I attended several times a couple decades ago, and have watched DVDs of messages since then. It's blessed my life. I don't have to be UPC to defend something that has impacted my life. Also, BOTT is not run by UPCI HQ, otherwise you wouldn't have had a PAW or ALJC minister preaching at the conference in the past.

I fellowship with Independent, UPC, PAW, ALJC, and other oneness organizations. I'm not bound by organizations or its HQ.

:thumbsup

Re: Bott '14
 

I understand. I just figure if there is a reason one left then there is also a reason the look back at what they left.

Re: Bott '14
 

I don't believe in the extra-biblical dress standards the UPCI includes in its statement of faith. Nor do I like the exclusiveness and barriers caused by its HQ and District Boards.

Frank Bartleman's book on Azusa helped with my desire to be independent and not tied to man-made organization.

Re: Bott '14
 

Who's preaching this year?

Re: Bott '14
 

It's over now.

Tuesday, January 21 - REVIVE
7:00 pm
David Bernard
Anthony Mangun

Wednesday, January 22 - REVIVE ME
9:30 am
Vesta Mangun
Stan Gleason
Terry Shock

7:00 pm
Charles Robinette
Michael Williams

Thursday, January 23 - REVIVE US
9:30 am
Forum
Moderator: Michael Williams
Participants: Tim & Stacy Gaddy, Granville McKenzie, Kenneth Stewart

Speakers:
Derald Weber
Wayne Huntley

7:00 pm
Jeff Arnold

Link