Doctrines held "In Common"
 

Hebrews 6:1-2 enumerates six elementary principles (i.e., components/parts) of the "doctrine of Christ":

Repentance from dead works
Faith toward God
Baptisms
The laying on of hands
The resurrection of the dead
Eternal Judgment

Every thing ever taught by our Lord, as well as the holy prophets and the chosen apostles, were centered upon these fundamental principles. With this in mind, while also acknowledging the warning written in Revelation 18:4 - "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues," then my question is this:

What doctrinal teaching(s), if any, does the Contemporary Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal crusade hold "in common" with the "other woman" (that is, the Great Harlot and her many Daughters)?

Ah, the benefits to be gained by re-examining what we accepted as truth at first glance!

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

Pre trib rapture and immortal soul.

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Tks, MTD, but which of the six doctrines noted are such things an integral part thereof?

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The resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

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What?

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:amen

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:happy4th

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

My friend, it is nearing midnight and I must retire. However, I came across this most interesting post. You present a very interesting thought here that it seems no one has taken upon to respond in depth. I'd like to revisit this at a later time. Until then peace in our Lord!

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

The rejection of the Sabbath, most oneness still worship on the same day as the Great Harlot.

There are a few of us Apostolics who totally reject the day of the sun as a proper day for worship, and instead worship on the day that God himself established.

Some of us Oneness Apostolics still keep all the Ten Commandments,
which were the only commanments
Pronounced by God Himself
Written by the Finger of God, twice
Put inside the ark of the coventant.
and reafirmed by Jesus himself when he spoke with the rich young ruler.

The rejection of the Ten Commandments by the majority of the Oneness Apostolics is what keeps them still united with the Great Harlot.

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I am concerned by what you write. It seems to me that the slide into legalism is always a risk with this kind of thinking. It’s a very slippery slope.

Romans 14:1-5 (KJV)
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Paul calls those who remain constrained by the Law as “weak in the faith.” The issue of Sabbath Keeping is a longer discussion for another post.

Galatians 4:9-10 (KJV)
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

He calls the Law, “weak and beggarly,” “bondage,” and verse 10 refers specifically to Sabbath keeping.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

He calls any return to the law as a requirement, to be “entangled again with the yoke of bondage. This is no small issue for Paul, he devotes much ink to warnings around this matter, not merely here in Galatians but in several of his other letters. It is of such import that he warns sternly in Galatians Chapter 5 that this kind of attitude is fatal to faith and threatens our very salvation.

Galatians 5:1, 4 (NASB)
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery… You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I’m confused as to how you handle verses such as those above. Can you help me to understand how your views are different from those of the Judaizers Paul fought so strongly against? I appreciate it.

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

Those are specifically listed in the passage in Galatians. Help me understand your objection.

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

I am concerned by what you write. It seems to me that the slide into legalism is always a risk with this kind of thinking. It’s a very slippery slope.

Actually the ones who have slide into legalism is the Oneneness types who teach about no pants on women, no beards on men and such similar legalistic rules that are nowhere found in the Bible, those are the ones sliding into legalism. for they do not even have scriptures to back their legalisms

Romans 14:1-5 (KJV)
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

These verses are referring to eating which have nothing to do with the Ten Commandments, you will not find anything about eating in the Ten Commandments. These verses are irrelevant to the Ten Commandments

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This refer to not judging another brother over food, again nothing to do with the Ten Commandments, zero asociation.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

There is not mentioning the Sabbath at all in this verse, there is zero mention of the Sabbath in this verse, so you can not use a verse that does not speak about the Sabbath, to teach against the Sabbath. Argument from silence have zero validity

Paul calls those who remain constrained by the Law as “weak in the faith.”
Paul is talking about the Law of Moses, which we are not longer uder, he is not talking at all about the Law of God which are the Ten Commandments.

The issue of Sabbath Keeping is a longer discussion for another post.

Of course many people have a poor understanding of the Ten Commandments and it does take a very long discussion to teach the keeping of all the Ten Commandments

Galatians 4:9-10 (KJV)
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

He mentions the Jewish festivals, which were part of the Law of Moses
the Sabbath is not mentioned in here at all.

He calls the Law, “weak and beggarly,” “bondage,” and verse 10 refers specifically to Sabbath keeping.

I repeat myself again, there is no mention or reference here to Sabbath keeping, you are reading your own intepretation into that verse.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Of course we are not longer requiered to do the works of the Law, for the Law was nailed to the cross, once again there is nothing in here about not keeping the Ten Commandments.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

I fully agree, we are free of the bondage of the the Law of commandments and ceremonies which were in the Law of Moses

He calls any return to the law as a requirement, to be “entangled again with the yoke of bondage. This is no small issue for Paul, he devotes much ink to warnings around this matter, not merely here in Galatians but in several of his other letters. It is of such import that he warns sternly in Galatians Chapter 5 that this kind of attitude is fatal to faith and threatens our very salvation.

Of course no one is advocating the judaizing of Christians, which would mean going back to the Law of Moses.

Galatians 5:1, 4 (NASB)
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery… You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.


We are justfified by Jesus Christ, and now that we are children of God, then we need to keep his Ten Commandments for if we love God then we will keep his ten Commandments.

I’m confused as to how you handle verses such as those above. Can you help me to understand how your views are different from those of the Judaizers Paul fought so strongly against? I appreciate it.

The Judaizers wanted to bring the people back into the bondage of the Law of Moses, with all its ceremonies, laws, days kept and other such things.

We Apostolics need be under submission to the Law of God, which are the Ten Commandments. For if we love God then we will keep his Ten Commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

1. Natural immortality (ie 'immortal soul' doctrine).
2. Abolition of the Sabbath, and more generally,
3. Abolition of the Law of God as the rule or standard of conduct for both the church and the nations at large, by which they will be judged.
4. Abandonment of Biblical Patriarchy and the effeminizing of men, which leads to the usurpation of leadership roles in the church and the home by the women. This is why most modern 'worship music' is effeminate (oriented towards females) and why most non pastoral activity in most churches is done by the women, and why many churches have memberships consisting mostly of women with fewer men. This also has lead to,
5. Sunday schools, whereby the proper Biblical role of the parents as the primary instructors of children is replaced by 'the church' (another usurpation of authority), contrary to Godly order. This has led to,
6. Children's church where children are separated from the rest of the ekklesia. Many of these 'programs' are nothing more than classes in worldliness for kids, or glorified day care centers. Parents approve of them because they don't want to be 'bothered' with their children while they worship God. There will be no 'Children's church' in Eternity.
7. Sacramentalism in regards to baptism. The words spoken by the preacher have the same effect as the words spoken in the trintiarian formula by a catholic priest, contrary to Acts 22:16 which CLEARLY and UNDENIABLY identifies that 'calling on the name of the Lord' in baptism is to be done by the REPENTANT BELIEVER, as declared in both Acts chapter 2 and in Romans 10, and in 1 Peter 3:21. Or else they fall into the opposite and equally heretical error of,
8. Memorialism in regards to baptism, where baptism is merely a ceremony for the sentimental benefit of the church (and really, the typical Protestant/Evangelical view of baptism makes it nothing more than an exercise in futility and 'dead works', theologically).
9. Waferism and sacramental memorialismin regards to the Lord's Supper, whereby the popish Eucharistic wafer is retained, the 'dread introspection' prior to partaking, the ceremonializing of the whole event, and the cognitive dissonance achieved by claiming it is all just a ceremony we do because we were told to do it renders it pointless and defeats its actual purpose as explained in the gospels and by Paul in 1 Corinthians.
10. Confusion in eschatology and prophecy whereby the 'Singular Antichrist' in the last 3.5 or 7 year 'great tribulation' doctrine combined with either futurism or preterism has led to all sorts of eschatological insanity that distracts from reality and Truth and essentially makes God a liar and renders a huge chunk of holy Scripture irrelevant for the last 2000 years (give or take).
11. Popery, and I'm not talking about the sweet, smelly kind! I mean sacerdotalism whereby one man assumes the role and title of 'Pastor' and a priesthood is established distinct from the 'laity' in keeping with both papist and pagan religion. This is almost always combined with
12. state incorporation, whereby a non-profit corporation, a creature of the state, is passed off as 'the church' to the unsuspecting and unaware, and has resulted in unnecessary entanglements with the IRS and a stifling of the 'pulpit' as preachers fear to speak publicly on the important issues of the day and NAME NAMES and CALL IT LIKE IT IS, for fear of being fined or jailed, and also for insurance purposes.



I could go on, but that's what I came up with off the top of my head.

:icecream

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The heresy is they believe one has eternal life/immortality before the resurrection of the dead. In other words no one really dies. The eternal judgment to them is the lost being tortured in flames for billions upon billions upon trillions upon trillions of years. Where scripture teaches "the wages of sin is death".

Not to mention the fact that todays modern Churches see no need to preach the all important truth "Be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect". Matt. 5:48

A lot more truth needs to be embraced among "Apostolics".

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

It seems to me that Hebrews 6:1-2 is referring to the evangelistic preaching of the gospel - those 6 elements (3 if you take them in related pairs) are the basics of the gospel call. When those foundational elements are lacking in the original preaching, conversion is often deficient.

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I certainly concur with those last two points!

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We may not agree, but I have a much better understanding of your viewpoint and I respect it. Those verses above cut both ways. :nod
Thank you for your patient reply.

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

Hebrews 6:1–2 makes for an excellent subject, however I would say there are 7 doctrines listed there rather than only 6. The one I would add that you do not have on your list is the first one mentioned which is the doctrine of Christ that I think can be summed up as forgiveness for all. Many people do not believe in forgiveness for all without their first being repentance on everyones part, but then I would have to point out to them that when Christ was dying on the cross he asked his Father to forgive those who crucified him. I think it is safe to say that at least a significant number of those responsible for his crucifixion did not repent of their action for a significant amount of time afterwards.

For the same reason that Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, Jesus tells us that if we do not forgive others as we have been forgiven, we can expect to be judged by God for things we have done (my paraphrase).

What I consider one of the most important facts of these 2 verses is what Paul (myself believing that Paul is the author of Hebrews) said about once we undersatnd the truth of these doctrines let us go onto perfection God willing. In other words the 7 foundational doctrines listed here are mandatory to know before God will move anybody on into perfection.

Unfortunately, you have about as many different combinations of beliefs regarding the 7 doctrines listed here as you do the amount of different denominations of Christian theology.(Last count I heard was over twenty thousand) This situation did not exist for the apostles in the first century church who were all on one accord believing the same things about these foundational doctrines, albeit they may have differed on other things that were not considered necessary foundational doctrines to have in common.

This is why Paul continually harped that we be of the same mind by allowing the mind that was in Christ Jesus to be the mind in us. The mind of Christ understands the truth of these 7 doctrines, and the mind of Christ is in harmony with God who is happy to perform signs and wonders to those who are in harmony with Him.

Blessings

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Amen! Let's not forget abandoning Passover for Easter.

Re: Doctrines held "In Common"
 

So I suppose that because that verse does not use the word Sabbath that verse can't be used for the Sabbath right? Well so that means when Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am" can't be used to show Jesus is God because it does not say "God"...

Imagine if we handled the entire word of God like that?

Why was Paul addressing foods? In Acts 16 they dealt with food issues because of the Jewish believers. Jewish believers kept the law and all the Holy Days.

That appears to be what Paul is addressing

Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

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1. Food. Paul was addressing vegetarianism. " One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables." Nothing there about food laws of the bible.

2. Days. Since Paul was addressing vegetarianism, the subject matter of his discourse is therefore not Judaism or Old Testament practices, but something else. The 'days' discussion should therefore be kept in that context.

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So in the first paragraphed above you imply universalism, the idea that all humans have been or will be forgiven (correct?), but in the second paragraph you misquote Jesus. He said if we do not forgive those who trespass against us, God will not FORGIVE us our tresspasses. He did not say 'we can expect to be judged for the things we have done' which leaves the nature of that judgement up in the air. The judgement we can expect is to not have our tresspasses forgiven.

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1. To cut to the chase you have omitted the all-important words that shine a light on why Jesus asked his father to forgive those who crucified him with the all-important words “they know not what they do”. It is quite obvious they knew what they were doing and they knew who they were crucifying being as there are ample Scriptures that proved the Jews knew that Jesus had come from God. What they did not know was why they were doing what they were doing, and under whose dominion and wishes they were only puppets for.(Another reason for you to start to reconsider your concept of what the doctrine of original sin means)

2. You seem to be a letter of the word expert witness but miss out on the all-important spirit of the word. Does not a lack of forgiveness imply judgment, and do not the Scriptures teach of judgment after death? Does not Jesus teach that upon death one will be judged for better or for worse depending upon those things they have done or thought to do?

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Was he addressing vegetarianism or was he addressing those who did not feel that they were still bound to the law of Moses and the diet that was followed at that time?