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-   -   UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit! (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=30783)

StillStanding 07-13-2010 08:31 AM
UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
$500,000 Awarded in Slander Lawsuit

This quote from the article is interesting:

Quote:
One of the reasons the pastor gave James Driver as grounds to biblically remarry was that James Driver once found his then-wife Angela Driver wearing a bikini at a swimming pool while with the husband of a mutual friend. The pastor felt that constituted exhibitionism and met the biblical definition of fornication, according to the defense summary.

However, the acts given the congregation that constituted fornication accused Angela Driver of adultery, and the use of the term “fornication” imputed immorality to Angela Driver, the lawsuit stated.
Are the days of pastors calling out individual members of the congregation for sin over? I hope so! It's one thing to preach against sin, but it's another when you name names and can possibly ruin the reputation of someone by your public gossip in front of peers.

MissBrattified 07-13-2010 08:36 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Slander aside: I don't think going swimming with someone else's husband is a good idea. :blink

My husband wouldn't appreciate it, that's for sure.

DAII 07-13-2010 08:37 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 938631)
$500,000 Awarded in Slander Lawsuit

This quote from the article is interesting:



Are the days of pastors calling out individual members of the congregation for sin over? I hope so! It's one thing to preach against sin, but it's another when you name names and can possibly ruin the reputation of someone by your public gossip in front of peers.
Hoping the days of manipulation will be tempered by this type of ruling ....


The guy was just trying to justify this remarriage by putting the fornicator tag on a woman who wore a bathing suit.

DAII 07-13-2010 08:42 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Moreover, Fogarty’s issues with Angela Driver were that she was not submissive and she wore clothing that he believed was immodest, including skirts above the knee, Kennedy said

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...#ixzz0tZcjfJZz


To many in this culture not submissive = being a fornicating Jezebel witch.

DAII 07-13-2010 08:46 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Kennedy said Angela Driver was accused in front of the congregation in effect of nine acts that ranged from bestiality to prostitution to child molestation because the pastor never named which one she actually was accused of doing.

The lows some religious folk will stoop to behind their bibles and ecclesiastical robes.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...#ixzz0tZdsr7tx

Ferd 07-13-2010 08:50 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
OOPS

Digging4Truth 07-13-2010 08:51 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 938631)
$500,000 Awarded in Slander Lawsuit

This quote from the article is interesting:



Are the days of pastors calling out individual members of the congregation for sin over? I hope so! It's one thing to preach against sin, but it's another when you name names and can possibly ruin the reputation of someone by your public gossip in front of peers.
There are specific step by step instructions for dealing with people in sin. Pastors should read them from time to time. Even heed them from time to time.

Esther 07-13-2010 08:53 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 938631)
$500,000 Awarded in Slander Lawsuit

This quote from the article is interesting:



Are the days of pastors calling out individual members of the congregation for sin over? I hope so! It's one thing to preach against sin, but it's another when you name names and can possibly ruin the reputation of someone by your public gossip in front of peers.
:thumbsup

DAII 07-13-2010 08:56 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
By the way not sure this a "conviction" as stated in the thread title.

drummerboy_dave 07-13-2010 08:58 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Looks like a good ruling to me. Time to re-think the "Tape Ministry"?

Cindy 07-13-2010 09:02 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Isn't it sad that the pastor's daughter was romantically involved with the husband and they later married? How pathetic.

DAII 07-13-2010 09:05 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 938647)
Isn't it sad that the pastor's daughter was romantically involved with the husband and they later married? How pathetic.
Yep. The motives for the slander seem pretty apparent ...

"But, Daddy, I love him. ..."

StillStanding 07-13-2010 09:05 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
The article stated that the lady gave the pastor an opportunity to publicly apologize and she would drop the lawsuit. It appears to me that the lady was more interested in rebuilding her reputation than the money.

As Abby said, it's not a good idea to prance around in a bikini in front of a friends husband! The lady is not totally innocent, but this is not adultery.

StillStanding 07-13-2010 09:07 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII (Post 938644)
By the way not sure this a "conviction" as stated in the thread title.
True!

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:07 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Kennedy added that Angela Driver attempted to resolve the issue out of court, asking for a retraction and apology from the pastor and the state district board for the church but was forced to file the lawsuit after neither was given.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...#ixzz0tZwEwYoP

This is my favorite part of the article. I guess the pastor should have listened when she tried to resolve the issue out of court...

DAII 07-13-2010 09:15 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 938649)
The article stated that the lady gave the pastor an opportunity to publicly apologize and she would drop the lawsuit. It appears to me that the lady was more interested in rebuilding her reputation than the money.

As Abby said, it's not a good idea to prance around in a bikini in front of a friends husband! The lady is not totally innocent, but this is not adultery.
Prance around at a pool with mutual friends (s) ... the nerve.

DAII 07-13-2010 09:15 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 938651)
Kennedy added that Angela Driver attempted to resolve the issue out of court, asking for a retraction and apology from the pastor and the state district board for the church but was forced to file the lawsuit after neither was given.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...#ixzz0tZwEwYoP

This is my favorite part of the article. I guess the pastor should have listened when she tried to resolve the issue out of court...
Would love to know what the district board had to do with this ....

drummerboy_dave 07-13-2010 09:18 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 938647)
Isn't it sad that the pastor's daughter was romantically involved with the husband and they later married? How pathetic.
Divorce in April.
"Announcement" in July.
Marriage in November.

It does seem more than a little swift, but are you suggesting something slanderous? Is it sad and pathetic because it's a "pastor's daughter'? just curious....

DAII 07-13-2010 09:19 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
From one of the church members in the article's comments area:

Quote:
Just want to speak my view, like it or not. You know, Angela Driver was an adult. She knows the views of the Pentecostal Church and has known their views for many years. She decided on her own accord, as an adult to attend that church and to participate in the activities within that assembly, as well as with her ex-husband. I know Angela, she is not a happy person. None of this will ever change that, it is inside and she will see that some day. She has a lot of potential but can't seem to give up her own ideas about some things. And I don't care who you are, at some point you don't get your way. That's life. You have to have moral commitments and have to nail some things down. She needs to do that. Her life will never be peace until she does. If she didn't want to hear it she should not have come to the church. The church is called to identify sins. No, I don't think we need to outwardly bash someone when they have made a mistake and especially when it is to promote our personal agenda (I don't know if that was done or not) but the fact remains that Angela knew what the church practiced. She knew her behavior was not condoned by the church she attended. She knew and she continued to attend. I have walked in the very same shoes as Angela with the exception of the lawsuit. I know my behavior was wrong. I didn't see at the time. On behalf of the suffering and pain Angela had, vengance is MINE saith the Lord. Not - take it into your own hands with a lawyer.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187...#ixzz0tZm07Lyi
Classic ... it's the victim's fault.

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:21 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII (Post 938653)
Prance around at a pool with mutual friends (s) ... the nerve.
lol, that was my thought exactly. I mean how awful of her to do such a thing (I hope the sarcasm is apparent).

DAII 07-13-2010 09:22 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 938665)
lol, that was my thought exactly. I mean how awful of her to do such a thing (I hope the sarcasm is apparent).
It was ....

DAII 07-13-2010 09:24 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 938660)
Divorce in April.
"Announcement" in July.
Marriage in November.

It does seem more than a little swift, but are you suggesting something slanderous? Is it sad and pathetic because it's a "pastor's daughter'? just curious....
Poor James. He's in for it.

Cindy 07-13-2010 09:25 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 938660)
Divorce in April.
"Announcement" in July.
Marriage in November.

It does seem more than a little swift, but are you suggesting something slanderous? Is it sad and pathetic because it's a "pastor's daughter'? just curious....
April to July, 3 months, are you kidding? Were there no single men in that church, or ones that weren't divorced?

Yes, that if it hadn't been his daughter marrying the ex, would he have called the lady out? How many other sinners did he call out?

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:26 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 938660)
Divorce in April.
"Announcement" in July.
Marriage in November.

It does seem more than a little swift, but are you suggesting something slanderous? Is it sad and pathetic because it's a "pastor's daughter'? just curious....
Well, just because the divorce wasn't finalized till April doesn't mean that he was "still with his wife" till April.

DAII 07-13-2010 09:27 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 938674)
Well, just because the divorce wasn't finalized till April doesn't mean that he was "still with his wife" till April.
But still married ... nonetheless.

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:31 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII (Post 938675)
But still married ... nonetheless.
With an impending divorce... Sometime long before April the guy gave up hope of being with his wife at the time. Once that is done then emotional connections can begin to be established with other people. I would bet that such a thing happened in this situation. In other words he probably began to date or at least be very friendly/flirty with the pastors daughter before the divorce was finalized. I don't see that as wrong.

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:33 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy (Post 938673)
April to July, 3 months, are you kidding? Were there no single men in that church, or ones that weren't divorced?

Yes, that if it hadn't been his daughter marrying the ex, would he have called the lady out? How many other sinners did he call out?
I imagine that him calling out sinners was fairly common practice... you don't know of any preachers that do that?

DAII 07-13-2010 09:33 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Was this what the emergency meeting was about at St. Louis that required at least one member of the STD to go and attend ... several weeks ago?

DAII 07-13-2010 09:34 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 938679)
With an impending divorce... Sometime long before April the guy gave up hope of being with his wife at the time. Once that is done then emotional connections can begin to be established with other people. I would bet that such a thing happened in this situation. In other words he began to date or at least be very friendly/flirty with the pastors daughter before the divorce was finalized. I don't see that as wrong.
Married is married ... if he was even emotionally attached with this girl before the divorce it would be deemed as adultery in the eyes of many, if not most Christians.

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:36 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII (Post 938681)
Was this what the emergency meeting was about at St. Louis that required at least one member of the STD to go and attend ... several weeks ago?
STD?

By the way, could the UPC be responsible for some of that money where the pastor is affiliated with them?

DAII 07-13-2010 09:37 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 938686)
STD?

By the way, could the UPC be responsible for some of that money where the pastor is affiliated with them?

South Texas district ...

Don't know if this church is ...

It would seem the district was brought up in the proceedings but according to the article the complaint was against the pastor.

drummerboy_dave 07-13-2010 09:37 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 938679)
With an impending divorce... Sometime long before April the guy gave up hope of being with his wife at the time. Once that is done then emotional connections can begin to be established with other people. I would bet that such a thing happened in this situation. In other words he began to date or at least be very friendly/flirty with the pastors daughter before the divorce was finalized. I don't see that as wrong.
Wow, frog. Maybe I'm just an idealist, but marriage is supposed to be for ever. I can't imagine how people find this acceptable.

Ferd 07-13-2010 09:38 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII (Post 938681)
Was this what the emergency meeting was about at St. Louis that required at least one member of the STD to go and attend ... several weeks ago?
hmmm....


interesting

DAII 07-13-2010 09:39 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd (Post 938689)
hmmm....


interesting
More here:

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...rgency+meeting

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:39 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII (Post 938682)
Married is married ... if he was even emotionally attached with this girl before the divorce it would be deemed as adultery in the eyes of many, if not most Christians.
They need to stick to the physical definition of adultery.

*AQuietPlace* 07-13-2010 09:40 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
I think preachers should be very, very careful what they say from the pulpit, and should be held accountable for slanderous remarks. It'd be nice if the rebuke would come from the people in authority over them, and not the law, but it doesn't usually work that way.

But, is it possible that lawsuits like this are going to take us someplace we don't want to be? A place where preachers are at risk of being sued for preaching against genuine sin?

Timmy 07-13-2010 09:42 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Oh dear. The court has "touched" God's anointed. Oh dear, oh dear.

DAII 07-13-2010 09:46 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Seems like Pastor Mark Fogarty is a well know PPH author ...

http://sales.pentecostalpublishing.c...a=153&guid=648..

jfrog 07-13-2010 09:47 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 938692)
I think preachers should be very, very careful what they say from the pulpit, and should be held accountable for slanderous remarks. It'd be nice if the rebuke would come from the people in authority over them, and not the law, but it doesn't usually work that way.

But, is it possible that lawsuits like this are going to take us someplace we don't want to be? A place where preachers are at risk of being sued for preaching against genuine sin?
I don't think this case leaves the door open for that. The pastor had a very real interest in painting the ex-wife in an adulterous light. From what I gathered his list of fornication that he gave the congregation didn't include wearing a bikini while swimming with a friend and that friends husband. It appears he was trying to mislead the congregation into thinking she had done something far worse than what she had done.

DAII 07-13-2010 09:48 AM
Re: UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!
 
Mark E Fogarty now serves as the Southeast Regional Executive Presbyter for the United Pentecostal Church International ... and part of the Georgia District Board.
Or is this a relative? His son?
Coming into view, folks.


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