For My Own Eyes
 

Sister, if you don't stop with all this , "I'm a backslidden heathen" mess, I am going to have to track you down and give you one of these>:snapout Enough already!

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Oh, Rico, Rico, Rico....

Mostly I say it is jest (you know me...all sarcastic and flippant all the time). As I obviously don't consider myself to be a heathen or backslidden, or deceived or a hopeless reprobate or a rank sinner...etc. etc.

However, I am fully aware that by the standards of most of the posters here, I am all those things. We could take a poll, but I doubt anyone would want to openly vote me into hell ;)

So let's just skip the personal aspect of it, and look to the issues....

I don't believe that the Bible is inspired, the Word of God, or authoritative.

I don't believe that you have to baptized, and if you are, I don't believe that it matters how its done.

I don't attend church, I have no desire to do so, and I don't have a lot of positive thoughts about churches in general.

I don't (think) that I believe in hell. The jury is still out on this one. If there is a hell, I think it's purpose is similar to how Crakjak believes.

I don't think that homosexuality is a sin. Nor do I believe is sex outside of marriage. ( I do believe that sex outside of a committed relationship is bad. )

I don't beleive that God cares a whole lot about many of the things we are so uptight about.

I'm not sure what I think about the whole salvation or justification thing.

I don't believe that the evidence of receiving the spirit is speaking in tongues. (but I do believe that speaking in tongues is a real experience)


That is just some of the don'ts...here are the only things I can say that I do believe:

I do believe in God/Jesus

I do believe that He wants to be in relationship/communion/communication with us.

I do belive that it is through being filled with his spirit that this is possible.

I do believe that we can act in ways that hinder that relationship ("sin")


Now I am not ashamed of what I believe, what I am still questioning, or what I just flat out don't know. But I was Apostolic for 8 years, and have been on these forums for almost 5. I know what Apostolics believe. and I have a pretty good idea of where my place is with them.

But I'm OK with that. I don't expect them to tip-toe around me. I know what they believe, and I am OK with them being vocal about it. It wouldn't bother me in the least if anyone on this forum told me that they think I am decieved and on my way to an eternal hell, because I know that's what they believe.

Does it bother you more that I call myself a heathn? Or that I am flippant and seemingly unconcered about it?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Sister, not to be rude, but so what? So what if you are questioning pretty much everything right now? You obviously have not abandoned faith, evidenced by the part of your post I bolded. There's a big difference in not being pro something and being anti something. Catch my drift? I don't think you've walked as far away as you, or others around here, might think. I worry, not so much about what others think of you, but more about what you think of yourself.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

OH! You think I think bad of myself!

That I revel in my heathenosity with an abandon worthy of a true reprobate. ;)

Not at all!

I am happy. Welll....not all the time, 'cause let's face it, I am still married to an Aspie who's been out of work for 15 months, and you know, like is stressful.

But beyond that, I really am. For 8 years whether or not I was going to hell consumed my every waking thought. (I constantly thought I was, though I worked super-hard to try and prevent that).

Now, I'm somewhat...well...nonchalant about the whole thing. If God wants to send me to hell, that's His call. But I would just as soon not spend my entire life obsessing about it.

I used to think it was about the destination, but I don't anymore. I think it's about the journey. I don't think faith is about knowing all the right answers. I think its about living in the midst of all the questions.

And I think that I have learned that. So words like heathen and reprobate have no sting for me. I am what I am. God is what He is. And together we are what we are.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

See? You aren't a heathen afterall!! Mission accomplished! Now.............take all that heathen junk off your avatar and cut it with all that negative talk about being backslidded, or I'm gonna hafta come show you what for! :D

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

What's an Aspie?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Wouldn't want to disappoint. :)

I'm afraid you are very deceived, but as long as you keep hanging around, there is hope. :happydance

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

BTW.. Rico..I wondered why you started a thread for "your" own eyes. ;):crazywalls

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

I'm just tryin to help someone out best as I know how. :)

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

LOL, that's insider talk for Asperger's Syndrome, which is on the Autism spectrum. More info can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger%27s_syndrome

When all is said and done, it just means that his brain works differently than yours or mine does. I read somewhere that 85% of Aspie marriages end in divorce. When I read it, it did NOT surprise me!

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

LOL, I just want to point out that after you made a point of me losing my foundation (by not believing the Bible to be inspired), then in response to how I could believe that homosexuality was not a sin, you said "
How can you read the Bible and say this? When it is an abomination to God!"

Isn't the answer pretty self-evident?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

I can't help it Rico, when it comes right down to it, I love the shock value! :toofunny

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

I can tell! :D Now get right! :preach

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

My Own Eyes, not everyone one on here thinks you're a lost heathen. I, for one, pray for you and wish you the best.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Amen. I hate it when I see her talking about herself that way.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Lost as two boys kissing.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Don't you have some criminals you can be throwing scriptures at or something?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

MOE

What caused you to doubt?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

People like OP! :lol

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

You could be right. :drama

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Touchy touchy.


:D

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Why didn't she answer the question?:tissue

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Same attitude, same approach to the attitude. See how that works? Oh. Let me throw a smiley in.


:D

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

That's why I don't respond to your posts. :D

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Curious. Why? What informed you that there is a God/Jesus?

How do we do that?

I think non-Apostolics by and large would not consider you a Christian for rejecting the inspired word of God too

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Wow. I've been Apostolic for more than 20 years and I have never been consumed in my every waking thought of going to hell. I don't know anyone else that is either. Why do you think that happened that way?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Kissing what?

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

I've wondered that myself, BeD. I have a theory. It sounds to me like she was being buffeted by a spirit of condemnation or something.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

I noticed you mentioned she still has faith. If that is the case then perhaps what happened really shook her faith

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

It seems like it. I find myself at a loss to really be able to help her because I know posting scriptures won't do any good. All I can do is find whatever I can to encourage her to press forward.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

It really is not an Apostolic thing.

Christians have been saying who is saved and not saved for years. They don't all say it with the same attitude though. They just speak matter of factly

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

MOE

I would suggest that you read the book of Romans (like in the message translation). I was a radical pentecostal -- I have true empathy for you.

I encourage you to read Romans because once you get the picture that there is no condemnation -- Living for God truly becomes a Joy unspeakable.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

First off, let me just say that the drama queen in me, is just loving having a whole thread that's all about me!!! :heeheehee

Oh boy! Do you have 14 hours??

I'm sorry, stupid real life got in the way, and I wasn't able to break free until now! :D

PO, honestly, I think I am much better than I used to be. In the beginning, I was very in your face and quite hostile about many things. I took a break for a while, and feel like I have made progress.

One thing to understand about me, is that if I KNOW that I trulyirritate you, I will actually do my best to keep our interaction as mild as possible. Because I understand that some people think I'm funny, and that some people don't get me, and I really have no desire to be a pain to those people.

So many questions to answer, and it's so difficult for me to do without writing several novels!

I think I can start by saying this...

I was flawed to begin with. I had plenty of issues before I ever stepped foot into a church. But then I came into a severely flawed spiritual situation. That is not an equation for healthy spirituality, you know?

After I left, I began the process of deconstructing my faith. It was like I knew I was wounded, but until I started the really poking and prodding at the wound, I didn't realize how badly it was infected.

For a long time I couldn't see beyond the pain. It was all I knew. It was totally all encompassing.

You know how when you are really sick, and after a few days you can't remember what it was like to not to be sick? It's like you know on one level that just a few days ago, you were physically healthy, but you almost can't believe it, because you can't remember what it felt like.

That's what it was like for me. The pain, the hurt, the bad stuff (whatever you want to call it), it clouds my memory. If there was ever a time when I loved God, without fear, I can't remember it. If I honestly ever did anything for any reason other than to not go to hell, it's completely gone.

People that knew me back then, can't believe that it was false from the beginning. Maybe it wasn't. Sometimes I think there is a little tiny glimmer in the recesses of my mind of something real and true and good.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

It's confounding, isn't it? When you base your entire faith on the Scripture, how do you convince one to whom the scripture holds no authority?

Believe it or not, it frustrates me at times. By nature I tend to be a very black and white person. I like things organized. I like this labeled and sorted and put away properly. A place for everything, and everything in it's place. And so I really do wish that there was a giant book that contained all the answers to life's questions.

But just wanting something to be true, doesn't make it so (otherwise, I would be both thin, and rich!!)



And it really doesn't bother me if someone thinks I'm not saved! I never would have made it 8 years as an Apostolic, if I cared what people thought!!!

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

If, I am allowed to love only those who have everything "right"....then there is no one to love. Eyes, may God bless you!

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

This question kept haunting me, so I thought I would give it another try.

It's true that you don't just go bed one night as a conversation Apostolic, and wake up the next morning as a liberal heathen (sorry Rico :D). So I would say that it happened gradually. (Which is where, I suppose, the Ultra Con's get their whole "Slippery Slope" argument).

But the truth was I reached a breaking point.

I was so battered and bruised and broken spiritually. Regardless of how I started, I found that my image of God was of a Big bully, who was capricious and untrustworthy.

It had gotten to the point, where I felt like I was screaming at the top of lungs, but that nobody noticed, not even God.

There is only so much a person can take, and everyone has thier breaking point, and I had reached mine.

I felt like I was at a crossroads. I could either accept that everything I knew and believed was true (and the ramifications that came with it), or accept the fact that things may not be as I believe (and all the ramifications that came with it).

Ironically, when faced with this decision, for the first time in my spiritual life, the fear of hell did not have a place in it.

For if the Apostolics were right, I was going to hell whether I left or stayed. For I had already proven myself incapable of being one of their number. And I was already miserable, so I figured how bad could it be on the outside?

Once I left, the layers slowly got pulled away.

It's not that leaving allowed me to get "decieved" or that I was on the "slippery slope" walking away from "truth", or any such.

Almost right away, I realized that the entire foundation of my religious belief was flawed. Once that part was removed, none of the rest could stand.

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

This is why I consider myself a 1 stepper because my works (for pentecostals --standards) could never save me. It seems that you have suffered under the impression of works. I don't serve God out of fear (trembling), but out of love -- and I can honestly say that. I do have respect for him but I am motivated by faith.

Thanks for responding!

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

I was looking through some of my old posts (I REALLY wish I could access some of the ones at FCF & NFCF, I bet I sounded all spiritual and stuff, LOL)

And I found this, and I thought it would fit here. This is what I responded that I wanted on my tombstone :

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...4&postcount=47

Mich....she said it like it was, she never gave up, and she made us all laugh through it all.

(I thought the middle part would encourage you )

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

Your welcome! I have been around since the forum's first incarnation as FCF, so many of the old timers have witnessed my journey from conservative, to moderate, to conservative to....falling off the chart :D

Re: For My Own Eyes
 

In reading your OP litany I was only immediately saddened by one thing:

I don't believe that the Bible is inspired, the Word of God, or authoritative

I am really convinced that this conclusion is the an extension of being discipled by men rather than the spirit of God.

If yours was like mine, your primary interaction with scripture was the pre-digested "feed the birdie" kind of teaching/instruction. "This is what it means", "I read and study....YOU FOLLOW ME."

After weeks, months, and finally years, the scriptures are just some kind of tool used by people to manage outcomes among a group of people. They never have occassion or circumstance to become living, or a sought-for and discovered treasure....just more vomit from the some pre-digesting, disciple- maker of men.

Just for kicks, why not try petitioning God for some specific understanding on any specific topic of importance to you and then be open to use the scripture in whatever means you know how to search them for answers.

Scriptures are a witness of spiritual things. Please reconsider how you might handle them and see if spiritual understanding can be received as a refreshing to your spirit.