Apostolic Friends Forum - Can Women Pastor ?

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Re: I read David Norris's article....poor scholars

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 859573)

It's really not that complex. I listed the scriptures. You didn't. I'm not denying, I'm just saying I think you're wrong on that point.

Well I'm not, go look at it for yourself. I don't have the time [or computer literacy??] to post them all.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

The job of a husband does have the inherent authority over the wife (Eph. 5:23) but that has nothing to do with preaching.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp (Post 859540)

Well I couldn't handle each "argument" above because the computer wouldn't let me quote it all...or at least I'm plumb ignorant of how to do so!

But, from what I can remember, you really need to study the meaning of "exegesis" a little more, since "culture & history" do not have one thing to do w/ the immediate text via word definition, syntax, etc....."I thought you would know that!" More appealls outside of the literal text.

And I'm well aware of Gordon Fee & Bart Ehrman's angle of I Cor. 14:34....& it's entirely speculative at the end of the day! Daniel Wallace addresses these issues in Strobel's, "The Case for the Real Christ." In sum, EVERY [over 5,000] Greek manuscript that we have possess the verse! Hmmmmmmmmm???? Think I'll stick w/ the literal texts & let you have Gordon Fee! The verse remains applicable & has nothing to do w/ "husbands & wives"....& no translation adopts such a rendering of vs. 34...try again!

Can't remember what else you said, but if you would requote it, I'd be more than happy to deal w/ these issues as time allows. At any rate, still waiting on your biblical example of a NT "woman expositor/preacher":_____________?

If you can't fill in the blank, then what evidence do we have? N-O-N-E!

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 859578)

I am not scorning I am asking a question...

I see, so LOL is sincere? You must be one happy lady!

I've told you ad nauseum that I could care less about church buildings & have taught home Bible studies in the slums outside to very poor folks. Care less about bldg.'s, yet you just keep repeating the same ol' things.

Deal w/ I Tim. 2. What does it mean when it says of women in the church, "I do not allow a woman to teach, or to excercise authority over a man"? Who in the world w/ an honest heart would read that & say, "O', God calls women to preach/teach"???????? Absolutely NO ONE.....................

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp (Post 859558)

Here's the catch: The implicit NEVER overrides the explicit teachings....this is exactly the hermeneutical flaw of women preacher advocates.

That's not a hermeneutical principle. In fact, you just made that up.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 858544)

I still remember many years ago a little village where we had gone to have service for the first time. After I had explained the plan of salvation and used the words that those that do not obey will be eternally lost, a little woman
raised her hand and said, "Missionary, my mother died three months ago; She never heard; will she be lost?"
It’s a shame that anyone would try to close the mouth of a woman. Crucial issues are at stake when a preachers mouth is shut. Will we lapse into the stifling silence to the point that souls are lost? Will we champion the oppression of women by calling it “God's will?"

May I ask, how did you answer this woman?

Re: I read David Norris's article....poor scholars

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp (Post 859579)

Well I'm not, go look at it for yourself. I don't have the time [or computer literacy??] to post them all.

I not only listed the verses, but included the citation of those verses. How much more do I need to do to make that point to you loud and clear?

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 859584)

Exegesis has nothing to do with historical/cultural context? I'm appalled at that statement. That can't be more wrong. You have taken a Hermeneutics class or at least read a good book on the subject? I say that not out of disrespect, but only because of how shocked I am that you'd make such a statement that couldn't be more wrong. Context (both literary, historical-cultural, etc) is all part and parcel of exegeting the Text.

And I'm juuuuuuuuust as shocked! Tell me Jeffrey, what does history have to do w/ literal word definitons, or Greek syntax for example????? Not saying at all that culture plays a part in the text, but I'm speaking strict exegesis of the actual text, not loose exegesis. Culture will not judge us in eternity, but His Word will. Perhaps YOU need to do a little more scholarly work:friend:friend

I don't have time or patience to re-quote when you can back browse a few pages and copy/paste if you care to respond.

Your "arguments" are nothing new, will try to learn how to copy/paste & respond if I have time [I'm embarrasingly computer illiterate!].

Re: I read David Norris's article....poor scholars

[QUOTE=Jeffrey;859592]I not only listed the verses, but included the citation of those verses. How much more do I need to do to make that point to you loud and clear?[/QUOT

Then be consistent & quote the KJV & NKJV...or are we being selective now via our emotions??

Re: Can Women Pastor ?

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (King James Version)

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

We don't need to flinch at these passages nor do we have to apply custom to them.
This is speaking of the husband and wife relationship clearly.
The word should be correctly translated from the greek wife not woman
and husband not man. A wife is not to usurp authority over her husband. She is not to teach him though they may share things and he may be open to her bible understanding. He is clearly the leader in the home. It is a very nice thing to have a home in biblical order.
Going back to the Adam and Eve relationship is the clue here is the clue.
Adam and Eve were the first couple. Then the word goes on to speak of childbearing. Women are not saved from sin by childbearing. They are promised a promise if they stay in the Biblical order of creation and has faith and love and holiness in her life. Lets be fair about the passage.