Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

I am fine with this explanation....



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...fmejg74yraRtbw


Question: "What is the Tribulation? How do we know the Tribulation will last seven years?"

Answer: The tribulation is a future seven-year period of time when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The church, made up of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus to save them from being punished for sin, will not be present during the tribulation. The church will be removed from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). The church is saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 5:9). Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2); trouble or tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1); the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period (Matthew 24:21); time or day of trouble (Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15); time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7).

An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice. Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power.

For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ's millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity's decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/tribulat...#ixzz3R7Bs8isV

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Maybe its pointless to discuss the matter with you. I told you I have never said I believe in a gap theory. Nor a 7 year tribulation. You are now telling me how I arrive at my conclusions in the face of what I said regardless.

Now where is the 490 year timeline? Starting from the beginning then the end? Dates please if I am to take it seriously. How would it hurt me to see such a timeline? I WANT to see it.

I dont know how it would adversly affect what I presently believe. But for truths sake I would love to see the 490 years laid out in a factual way.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

I kept saying IF YOU BELIEVE.... hypothetical.

I did not notice you mention you did not believe in a seven year tribulation, though. Sorry. Many apologies. But, I still said "IF..."

Simple. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem put forth by Cyrus until Jesus came and began ministering was 483 years. And from the time of His ministry's start to the cross, 3.5 years and 3.5 years after that was the end. Gentiles came into the church around then.

That's why the start of Christ's ministry had him say THIS DAY the scripture is fulfilled in their ears. The Spirit anointed Him to preach.
It is a fascinating study. But you would not believe how this timeline has been attacked. After all, it's the ONLY timeline provided in scripture. And this is why I believe Christ said many many false Christ's would arise in their day, for imagine a false prophet knowing the timeframe and plotting to convince everyone he was the true Christ.

False Messiahs were rampant then because everyone knew the timeline from Daniel for the Messiah to come.

So, it only stands to reason this issue is harshly attacked. And the weird thing is that there's a HUGE controversy about the timing of the decree and which decree was the pertinent one!

But if you do not believe in a seven year period, what do you believe? And if you don't, this may not apply to you.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Another take:

http://truthinhistory.org/the-sevent...-daniel-2.html

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

It's always good to read and hear various views.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Yes indeed. :nod

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Right.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Well yes we could all be wrong about it. And we could all be wrong about Acts 2:38. And we could be wrong about Oneness. So on and so forth.

I will stick with what Paul said:


Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come unless there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition. 2 Thess 2:3

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Amen: and the Church will definitely recognize "...the falling away and that man of sin...".
Not that we are looking for such, but look to the Lord.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Ok I have read both of those links. Now how about a link that explains Daniel 11:31 unto the end of the book?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Daniel 11:21-45 is The life and acts of Antiochus Epiphanes

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Really? And where can we read how he fulfilled these things?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Check the history books. It's all there. Even the Macabbean books

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Check this out, MTD.

http://www.julianspriggs.com/Pages/A...Epiphanes.aspx

The books of Maccabees are not inspired, but they are in some instances VERY good histories.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Chuck Missler on you tube does some teaching on the book of Daniel that I enjoyed. I don't say that I'm in total agreement, but it is in depth. I definitely learned some things from it. He get's into some stuff about aliens and the Nephalim that is a little weird, but you have to pick the bones out sometimes. Who knows? Just because somethings sound crazy maybe he's on to something. lol.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

So no possible chance you are in error about who or what the man of sin is?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

The man of sin sits in God's temple. God's temple according to Paul is the church.

Therefore futurism's singular antichrist in rebuilt Jewish temple is not prophesied in scripture.

Next?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Do you have a scriptural passage wherein it is stated by Paul that the church is God's temple?

Malachi 3:1 prophesied that the Lord "shall suddenly come to his temple." Did God not do that when He entered that temple that is not made with hands, that is, that human body which He formed in the womb of Mary?

I've always understood Paul's statement of I Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; and II Corinthians 6:16 was meant to imply that our human bodies, that is if we have been granted to possess the Spirit, is the "temple of God." Therefore seeing that Christ was also a man, like ourselves (Hebrews 2:14, 17), then should we not conclude that "God's temple," as Malachi wrote about, was His own body, and not a structure or building made by the hands of mortals?

When the prophesied Anti-Christ manifests himself in human flesh, will he not do so by sitting in a temple (i.e., human body) which God intended as His temple when He created mankind in the beginning? Was not the purpose which God intended in creating mankind was so that He who is invisible and incorporeal, become manifest through the physical bodies of mankind? Did God have some other purpose that He desired to achieve in His creation of man as a substantive human being than this; a temple wherein He was to be the Chief Cornerstone?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Well if these things are historically accurate it certainly would put another light on the subject. It would "seem" to fulfill Dan 11. Yet it would also be disturbing.

We would have Jesus prophesying telling us to watch for what Daniel the prophet said about the "abomination of desolation" when it HAD ALREADY OCCURED 200 YEARS EARLIER!

HUH?

Then also if chapter 11 depicts Antiochius chapter 12 should be the logical follow through.

So then THIS should have occured in HIS TIME.

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan. 12:2

So we know (I hope) that the resurrection did not happen 200 years before Jesus came to the Earth.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Very good observation.

Actually the website I referenced, if memory serves me well, noted there was a similar event to occur again. The key is that Dan 9 is not about Antiochus, just Dan 11. Dan 9:27 is about the future from Christ's day.Another good one!

Albert Barnes actually said that was the case, but not a physical resurrection. And the resurrection there may not necessarily be about physical resurrection. Salvation is called a resurrection in Romans 6:13.

We have to keep in mind that Daniel was written before Antiochus did anything.

Daniel 12:1

And at that time - At the period referred to in the preceding chapter. The fair construction of the passage demands this interpretation, and if that refers to Antiochus Epiphanes, then what is here said must also; and we are to look for the direct and immediate fulfillment of this prediction in something that occurred under him, however, it may be supposed to have an ultimate reference to other and more remote events. The phrase “at that time,” however, does not limit what is here said to any one part of his life, or to his death, but to the general period referred to in the time of his reign. That reign was but eleven years, and the fulfillment must be found somewhere during that period.

... It cannot be denied that it might be applied to those who, for any cause, were inactive, or whose energies were not aroused - as we often employ the word sleep or slumber - and that it might be tints used of those who seemed to slumber in the midst of the persecutions which raged, and the wrongs that were committed by Antiochus; but it would be most natural to understand it of those who were dead, and this idea would be particularly suggested in the connection in which it stands here.
In the dust of the earth - Hebrew, “In the ground, or earth of dust” - ארמת־עפר 'ademath ‛âphâr. The language denotes the ground or earth considered as composed of dust, and would naturally refer to those who are dead and buried - considered as sleeping there with the hope of awaking in the resurrection.
Shall awake - This is language appropriate to those who are asleep, and to the dead considered as being asleep. It might, indeed, be applied to an arousing from a state of lethargy and inaction, but its most obvious, and its full meaning, would be to apply it to the resurrection of the dead, considered as an awaking to life of those who were slumbering in their graves.

Something to consider.

Is this physical resurrection?

Ezekiel 37:2-6 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. (3) And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. (4) Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. (5) Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: (6) And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Hanukkah is about that ordeal with Antiochus! And Jesus celebrated Hanukkah.

John 10:22-23 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. (23) And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Just some info for folks to consider. Whether it changes your thoughts or not is not a matter to anyone else but you and the Lord.

To me, a huge proof of first century fulfillment of Matth 24 showing the early church believed it is the fact that when AD68 saw the Roman armies marching to Jerusalem, the CHRISTIANS there -- ALL OF THEM -- believed it was fulfillment of Jesus' words in Matt 24 to flee to the mountains. Cestius Gallus backed off for no apparent reason, and the Christians FLED! It was just what they knew Jesus said it Matt 24 that made them flee!

If that does not prove the early first century church believe Matt 24 was for their day, and SUCCESSFULLY avoided death in AD70 because of it, what else can prove it?

Pseudo-Clementines (2/3rd century)
"Subsequently also an evident proof of this great mystery is supplied in the fact, that every one who, believing in this Prophet who had been foretold by Moses, is baptized in His name, shall be kept unhurt from the destruction of war which impends over the unbelieving nation, and the place itself; but that those who do not believe shall be made exiles from their place and kingdom, that even against their will they may understand and obey the will of God." (Recognitions 1:39:3)

Eusebius (325)
"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. " (History of the Church 3:5:3)

"The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella. Here those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers form the earth. (Eusebius, 3:5.)

"After all those who believed in Christ had generally come to live in Perea, in a city called Pella of the Decapolis of which it is written in the Gospel and which is situated in the neighborhood of the region of Batanaea and Basanitis, Ebion's preaching originated here after they had moved to this place and had lived there." (Panarion 30:2)

"For when the city was about to be captured and sacked by the Romans, all the disciples were warned beforehand by an angel to remove from the city, doomed as it was to utter destruction. On migrating from it they settled at Pella, the town already indicated, across the Jordan. It is said to belong to Decapolis (de Mens. et Pond., 15).

"Now this sect of Nazarenes exists in Beroea in Coele-Syria, and in Decapolis in the district of Pella, and in Kochaba of Basanitis-- called Kohoraba in Hebrew. For thence it originated after the migration from Jerusalem of all the disciples who resided at Pella, Christ having instructed them to leave Jerusalem and retire from it on account of the impending siege. It was owing to this counsel that they went away, as I have said, to reside for a while at Pella" (Haer 29:7).

"For when all who believed in Christ had settled down about that time in Peraea, the majority of the emigrants taking up their abode at Pella, a town belonging to the Decapolis mentioned in the Gospel, near Batanea and the district to Basanitis, Ebion got his excuse and opportunity. At first their abode was Kochaba, a village in the district of Carnaim, Arnem, and Astaroth, in the region of Basanitis, according to the information we have received. But I have spoken, in other connections and with regard to other heresies, of the locality of Kochaba and Arabia (Haer 30:2)... "[The Ebionites] spring for the most part from Batanea ... and Paneas, as well as from Moabitis and Cochaba in Basanitis on the other side of Adraa" (Haer 30:18).

Epiphanius (375)
"The Nazoraean sect exists in Beroea near Coele Syria, in the Decapolis near the region of Pella, and in Bashan in the place called Cocaba, which in Hebrew is called Chochabe. That is where the sect began, when all the disciples were living in Pella after they moved from Jerusalem, since Christ told them to leave Jerusalem and withdraw because it was about to be besieged. For this reason they settled in Peraea and there, as I said, they lived. This is where the Nazoraean sect began." (Panarion 29:7:7-8)

"Their sect began after the capture of Jerusalem. For when all those who believed in Christ settled at that time for the most part in Peraea, in a city called Pella belonging to the Decapolis mentioned in the gospel, which is next to Batanaea and the land of Bashan, then they moved there and stayed.." (Panarion 30:2:7)

"For when the city was about to be captured and sacked by the Romans, all the disciples were warned beforehand by an angel to remove from the city, doomed as it was to utter destruction. On migrating from it they settled at Pella, the town already indicated, across the Jordan. It is said to belong to Decapolis " (On Weights and Measures 15)

Flavius Josephus (A.D. 75)
(Opportunity Arises to Flee) "It then happened that Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world." (Wars, II, XIX, 6,7)

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Could Mt. 24 find partial fulfillment in A.D. 70?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Most of us believe it is a partial our repeating prophecy. Full prets have Jesus coming and taking his people to Heaven then.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Ever notice how Preterists read into history books the way they accuse Futurists of reading into newspaper headlines? lol

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

I was just thinking that as I sat down at the computer.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Certainly, but most of Matt 24 has not been fulfilled yet.....(previous post)...

Matthew 24
King James Version (KJV)
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?...3 QUESTIONS HERE



4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
This is the worldwide, end of age part.





9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. This is the dispersion of Jews part. ad70



11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. This is a warning to end time Israel, before the Tribulation.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This is during the tribulation and its ending.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. This is a warning to be watching, particularly Israel and the saints of God in the last days of the Last days events to precede the rapture and tribulation.





NOW HERE IS HIS DISCOURSE OF THE RAPTURE...
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



That is how ALL 3 questions are answered by the Lord. You guys blended it all together into the part of the Jews being dispersed only....This is what I call logical eschatology.(Notice, that I use very little commentary?). I showed you something easily understood, the way the gospel should be understood....simply

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

(previous post)

HERE IS MY LUKE 21 OUTLINE I PROMISED....Notice, no long explanations...Just easily understood passages laid out for the simple folks to read. The kind Jesus wants to save. Even a CAVEMAN could understand it...LOL


6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

They asked Jesus ONLY about the destruction of the temple here, but Jesus gives them more info than they actually asked for, just like Matt. 24...



8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven......
Now this above is the series of General signs before His 2nd coming.



Notice now..."but (before) all these", addressing their original question...
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. At this point, Jesus is finished with the destruction of Jerusalem explanation and proceeds to speak of His 2nd coming signs...


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. These above are the signs that Jesus wanted to point out of His 2nd coming in these end times.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Here, Jesus gives us a warning to watch for these signs, before His return...FOR THE WHOLE EARTH....LOOK BELOW

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the (whole earth).

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

January 15, 2015 post from institue of creation research(ICR)

The Holy City
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.” (Revelation 21:2-3)

On the night of the last supper, Jesus made a wonderful promise to His disciples: “In my Father’s house are many mansions. . . . I go to prepare a place for you. And . . . I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” (John 14:2-3). Eventually, at His second coming, those who belong to Him shall be with Him.

That this promise applies to all His disciples (not just the eleven in the upper room) is evident in His prayer right after this conversation: “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word. . . . Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am” (John 17:20, 24). When the Lord returns, or when we die as believers, “so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

That place where we shall be with Him, which He is still preparing for us, is the Holy City, new Jerusalem; for our text says that “he will dwell with them” there and be their God. The last two chapters of the Bible describe in some detail that beautiful “tabernacle of God,” in which we who believe in Christ will all have our Christ-prepared mansions some day.

This magnificent city is not heaven, for John saw it “coming down from God out of heaven.” Right now, therefore, it is in heaven, where the Lord Jesus is, along with the souls of those believers who already have gone “to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8). There in the Holy City, “the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him” with eternal joy (Revelation 22:3). HMM



Brethren, you arent just going to be floating around on clouds. Dont you forget it!!!

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

No, because the tribulation would be such as was never before and never again. If AD70 was the trib, then it was worse than anything to come, disallowing for future. If the future is the trib then it is worse than anything before, disallowing again.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Say what you will, but the early church fled Jerusalem AD68 in answer to Christ's command in Matt 24. Thank God they did not believe futurism. ;)

And by the way, that is not true. I post TWO MESSAGES out of the ... I'm sure... hundreds of messages on prophecy, and while futurists are going to the newspapers over and over again, and I get accused of doing with history what futurists do with newspapers?

You guys tend to lose a little honesty when you write things like this. You have to admit that by FAR we use BIBLE to prove our points. In fact, I never even resorted to history until MTD asked for history about Antiochus. Try again, please. :)

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

How do you see the seven trumpets fulfillment of Rev. 8 & 9?

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

This is what concerns me about the belief that all this has taken place. Although great tragedy took place in A.D. 70 I struggle believe it has been the worst. Maybe it has been the worst on location event for the nation of Israel to taken place on their soil, but the holocaust probably done far more devastation. You may say not per capita, but to me a million deaths is greater than a thousand no matter what the percentage of the populations.

I am not saying you're wrong, but there are two many loose ends for me to decide. Most of are posts are just one person refuting one another and little is given in explanation of what things mean. If someone does explain then someone else will give a logical valid argument to refute the others stance. It goes on and on. No one seems to be able to prove what is right, but only what is wrong. I have been praying, studying and will soon probably do some fasting over this subject also, but I would like to have a solid stance in addition to just that the Lord is going to return.

Take the population of earth in the first century and consider it again of what percentage would have been slain. Associate that with the fact that Jerusalem was God' s bride turned whore. Even though she played the whore it was still his wife.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Bowas wrote:

According to best estimates, there were 97,000 prisoners and 1,100,000 who perished. He also cites a widespread slaughter by the local populations elsewhere where the Jews were disliked including Damascus 18,000 plus their families and Egypt 60,000 plus families.

Best estimate of population of the entire planet in AD100 is <200,000. So it would be equivalent to @35,000,000 Jews being killed today. That is how large a number of people was slaughtered in ad70.

Neither is acceptable, but just to put a perspective on the magnitude of that massacre back then. Not to mention why that happened to them in that generation.
To take it a step further, if we are to tally up the population of "the world" as it is described in the Bible for this region at that time where the Jews lived (see verse), the massacre in AD70 is even far more horrific.

There was an estimated 70,000,000 people in THAT world at that time, and out of that 70 million, over 1 million Jews was killed, so it would have been the equivalent of 100,000,000 (1 hundred million) Jews killed, proportionately to our 7 billion population today

2 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that ALL THE WORLD should be taxed.

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Hmmmm....


Estimated Number of Jews Killed
Final Solution: Table of Contents | Background & Overview | Wannsee Protocol

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Country
Pre-Final Solution Jewish Population
Jewish Population Killed in Final Solution
Percent Killed
Poland
3,300,000
3,000,000
90%
Baltic Countries
253,000
228,000
90%
Germany/Austria
240,000
210,000
88%
Protectorate
90,000
80,000
89%
Slovakia
90,000
75,000
83%
Greece
70,000
54,000
77%
The Netherlands
140,000
105,000
75%
Hungary
650,000
450,000
70%
White Russia
375,000
245,000
65%
Ukraine*
1,500,000
900,000
60%
Belgium
65,000
40,000
60%
Yugoslavia
43,000
26,000
60%
Romania
600,000
300,000
50%
Norway
1,800
900
50%
France
350,000
90,000
26%
Bulgaria
64,000
14,000
22%
Italy
40,000
8,000
20%
Luxembourg
5,000
1,000
20%
Russia *
975,000
107,000
11%
Denmark
8,000
--
--
Finland
2,000
--
--
Total
8,861,800
5,933,900
67%



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...p5oUkAncfL23Kw

Re: Why I Am A Futurist
 

Only one problem with, (if I understand you are trying to claim AD70 was not the generation Jesus, Apostles and fortunately the Christians in Jerusalem in AD70 believed it was concerning Matt 24 and fled Jerusalem to the saving of themselves) but in the year 1940 seems there was @18,000,000 Jews world wide.
AD 70 was the worst, not due to the quantity of killed and scattered to the nations, but the magnitude of the crime/event of even why it occured.

Don't even try to make it seem I downplay the autroucities of the Hitler era, but AD 70 is what Matt 24 is prophesying

Is that what you are claiming?