Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1112424)

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You agree with "the WORD was with God" and then you throw out the last part of the sentence...

Phil 2
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Again, Christ is EQUAL with God. He's not just some type of surbodinate.

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1112424)

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You agree with "the WORD was with God" and then you throw out the last part of the sentence...

Phil 2
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Again, Christ is EQUAL with God. He's not just some type of surbodinate.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 1112436)

The words he is using are in line with the word of God.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Originally Posted by berkeley (Post 1112437)

John 1v2 He was in the beginning with God.

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1112389)

Ex 23

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him
22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

God's name is in this specific angel. God does NOT share his glory with angels or man, yet God's name is in this Angel.

1 Cor 10
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The person of Christ pre-existed as the visible form of God. God is Spirit and invisble, whom no man hath seen at any time.
His visible form (or self-revelation) is his WORD. So the WORD was with God and yet was God himself because the WORD is the visible manifestation of God. Hence, the WORD pre-existed with God.

1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

But the WORD (visible manifestation of God) did not become Son until the incarnation. (John 1:14)

Now, because the person of the WORD is the same as the person of the Son, some then say the Son pre-existed. In a way, it's right, but, still not right.

It's like saying I became a Father in 2011. I, as a person, existed before 2011.However, me being a Father did not start UNTIL 2011. Same thing with the Word pre-exsiting before the incarnation, but became Son at the incarnation.

So the Word pre-existed, but the Sonship was in the mind of God.

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

We all know the actual crucifixion occured about 2000 years ago, yet it says he was slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eph 3
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

(The Sonship was hidden by God and only revealed 2000 years ago.)

The Son was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The Sonship was in the mind of God, but was manifested 2000 years ago. So the Word pre-existed, but the Sonship was in the mind of God

In summary,
God is the invisble, eternal Spirit, whom no man hath seen nor can see.
He (God) however, chose to show himself in a visible form to his creation. This visible form is called the WORD of God.
Thus, the WORD has always been with God, and yet still is God himself.
The WORD of God (God's express self-revelation) was made flesh which began the Sonship.
The WORD pre-existed, but the Sonship only existed in the mind of God.



So we see God come nearer to his creation step by step. He first becomes visible to his creation as the WORD.
Then, he comes even closer to us a man (the WORD made flesh ergo Son of God)
Then he comes in us as the HolySpirit.

God is INFINITE. We CANNOT quantify him. No sir. He has chosen to reveal himself to his creation in various forms at different times. Yet, he still remains the Infinite Almighty God.

No wonder he said:

Is 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Rev 1
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus the Son of God is the exact imprint, visible self-revelation, of the infinte God.

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1112440)

I'm not denying that the Word was with God. What I'm saying is that the scriptures also say that the Word was God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He is quoting only "the word was with God" and leaving out "the word was God"

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1112424)

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You agree with "the WORD was with God" and then you throw out the last part of the sentence...

Phil 2
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Again, Christ is EQUAL with God. He's not just some type of surbodinate.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1112298)

But that verse does not mention the Son. It mentions "Christ" Jesus. And it mentions the "form" of God.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 1112300)

Praxeas said "I think the Son pre-existed being human as God Himself" and you replied "Stated perfectly" along with others who agreed as well.

If the son pre-existed as God himself... was he God the son? How did he exist?

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 1112304)

Thanks Brother Epley.

This is what I have always been taught and do still believe although, as I had mentioned, there are a few "head scratcher" verses out there that I find hard to reconcile with my beliefs sometimes.