Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 281543)

I shared a deep burden and the burden is not only about the UPC it is a general burden about grown men and women saying things that should not be said about others and especially in front of children or other saints.
I think some may have thought it is a UPC thing but it is a human thing...and it is not only on this trip...
If there is a real problem which I know happens can not the man of the house BE MAN ENOUGH to solve it without involving innocent souls.
Do you think in 40 years we have had no problems? Of course we have...soul rendering problems, lies even told on us but Brother Alvear is cool headed and thinks about tomorrow and always cautions me to be careful.
In our family I have been the one that has to work on THINKING and weighing the matter out before I speak. We all have different personalities and God is ready to give us grace and wisdom when to speak and when not to speak.

Sometimes to help others we must LISTEN and OBEY good sound advice.

Several years ago we had a church split...and Brother Alvear called the family together and told us that would be our last night that he would give the people the church and we would start over in another area and he would get up and tell the people and for us not to say ONE WORD just to do what he did..so he in his special way got up and told the people we had ceased to be a blessing and he would always be their friend and if they needed anything from him or his family we would be there for them but his opinions and theirs would not work together...so he told the people goodby and prayed for them in front of all us and we quitely walked out...
After we got home he talked to us especially our oldest adopted son that was about ready to man handle some of them but I still remember Brother Alvear saying, "son if we keep right even though we were done wrong God will bless us". Brother Alvear during all that time NEVER said one evil word about those people that had hurt him even more than us deeply...In the end God blessed us we trippled our attendance number that we were having there and God blessed us to build a beautiful home and church and the years have passed and I have been over at the other church to speak at several service...
We could have been bitter enemies but God gave wisdom to Brother Alvear.

As a christian lady I ask where are the GODLY leaders...the Jesus-like leaders?

It is ok not to agree...it is ok not to go along with what we may judge sin but it is NOT ok to destroy.

In my mind it is even ok to start how many groups we want to start if we feel that will help us but in our starting let us remember the teachings of our Lord and the writings of his disciple.

1 Peter 2:23

23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
KJV

Remember I do not have to tell our battles on a public form but I do so to help fellow climbers...

Originally Posted by He's My Friend (Post 281604)

Originally Posted by stmatthew (Post 281953)

I guess I am the odd ball here. I have always been open and honest with my kids about church matters, whether good or bad. To me, issues of churches are learning experiences that both teach and mature. I personally believe my kids are the better and stronger for it. They know what they believe, and why they believe it. They understand that the preacher is not God, but an earthen vessel that carries Gods message. I have did my best to teach them that should the man of God fail, the God of man will not. None of them hate preachers, or have a problem with saints. But they know real from imitation.

Originally Posted by JaneEyre (Post 281860)

Sis, I know about the lies being told and it is strange to me that the liars can be so pious and "holy looking"....If I didn't know what they had done, I would think they were model saints and preachers. God will judge all things - but for the life of me I still don't understand how people can be so brazen and deceptive - all in the name of doing good. The longer I am away from this situation, the better I feel. Thank God for His Grace and Understanding.I'm still praying that I can feel and know I have rendered complete forgiveness to those who have wounded me. It's not optional. At times, all of us have broken the heart of Jesus Christ. If I am going to be forgiven, I have to forgive. I keep telling myself that. One day it will click "for good" I hope.

Originally Posted by stmatthew (Post 281953)

I guess I am the odd ball here. I have always been open and honest with my kids about church matters, whether good or bad. To me, issues of churches are learning experiences that both teach and mature. I personally believe my kids are the better and stronger for it. They know what they believe, and why they believe it. They understand that the preacher is not God, but an earthen vessel that carries Gods message. I have did my best to teach them that should the man of God fail, the God of man will not. None of them hate preachers, or have a problem with saints. But they know real from imitation.