Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1265337)

The 'house of God' is not a building. No building made with hands is God's 'house'. The house of God is the church, and that is the PEOPLE OF GOD, as the Scripture says:

Originally Posted by Rudy (Post 1265357)

Brothers and sisters I'm fighting an illness but I hope to see Pentecost restored before I leave this world. As one old timer said," it used to be about prayer and fasting, now it's about money."

Originally Posted by FlamingZword (Post 1265365)

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

Originally Posted by FlamingZword (Post 1265365)

I has been about money from the times of the Old Testament
Money was given to the Temple everyone had to give the Shekel.

In the New Testament people sold their properties and gave the money to the Apostles.

There has always been money involved in the church. That is why we have a bunch of false prophets going around preaching the prosperity gospel.

Those false prophets are stealing the money that rightfully belong to the real preachers of the Apostolic Gospel.

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013 (Post 1265204)

Well said Jason. I wouldn't leave over tithing alone or a couple standards. I don't think it a big enough disagreement to warrant uprooting and moving. I have been in my church for 19 years. I've been involved in work or ministry there for some 16 of those years.

Ultimately, I would leave over the overall direction of my church. It's not simply that eithing. It is the fact that every single service (I wish I was exaggerating) my Pastor makes sure to tell us we need to give more and pay our tithes. Even when it has NOTHING to do with his text or topic, he finds a wayo to drop it in there. And this in a church where it has been said multiple times that over 90% of the church are active regular givers. This on top of the fact that every week there is some new project he wants us to give to. 40 grand for this, a couple thousand for that. ON and on it goes all the time. A lot of us are sick of the constant give more money drumbeat, but it's like he is tone deaf to the people.

Now, if we were giving in order to fund a food pantry, or to provide clothes, or help with th esalvation army or local healthcare for the needy. If we were being asked to give in order to help shut ins, widows, seniors with no one else to care, etc...that would be no problem. At least that is BIBLICAL. But here it is all about building up our building and then renovating and next year...starting to build on to the building. We built a gymnasium. We built a youth chapel. His view is the "house of god should be the nicest building in town". The church building IS NOT the house of God, WE ARE the temple now! We have no outreach program. Rarely is outreach preached or promoted. We do very little at all for the community besides have a church...and yet somehow that is perfectly fine. Let's spend untold thousands on a building while people are starving around us. I can't find where that agrees with the message of Christ.

I'm ONeness to the core. I am a "3 stepper", but those 3 steps are only accessable to us b/c of the blood of the lamb. I believe in justification by faith the same way James and Paul did: show me your faith by your good works. If you don't do good works, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. If you are justified, then you'll do good works. Faith is more than mental ascent. I preach the initial evidence of tongues. I believe in the gifts of the spirit. I really do find myself agreeing with most of the Apostolic doctrines. Honestly, I find myself pretty conservative...except on this forum by comparison. LOL.

I want my kids to know church shouldn't be a constant barrage of give give give give just to see a stupid building built up. I don't want them to feel like they aren't good Christians because they choose to not toss every spare dollar they have into some offering at church. That they aren't lost and onthe way to hell for not tithing. But they will grow up and hear that nonsense every flippin week here and it drives me nuts.

I have considered for a while now starting a work in a small village/town about 10 minutes outside our town. There has never been an Apostolic church there. I don't like the "everyone come to this one church mentality". I think the kingdom is better served if people go OUT and have smaller, more intimate and connected (family like) churches. So i would love to get somethign started there as home bible study/prayer meetings and see where it goes. Somewhere we can preach the Apostolic doctrine without tithing and some of the clothesline stuff, but also stress being far more active in the community and giving to the poor and needy. Francis Chan has been kicking my tail with convictiopn over how much he and his church give away to the poor and such, not only here but in foreign countries.

I think we are missing the mark in a lot of ways, but you can't do much about it. I thought I could change the church from within by just working and trying to talk about these things and pray for change. It won't happen when the Pastor won't even give thought to it. So now I am looking for direction elsewhere. I love the church and the Pastor. I'm just not happy there. Not challenged there. Not getting educated there. Not inspired there anymore. I need more than what my Pastor offers, and I don't think he ever will. My wife would be perfectly happy staying there forever, but for me...if I stay I may lose my mind in time. So I need to either find direction elsewhere, or I need God to change my mind and give me some peace about this place.

Originally Posted by Rudy (Post 1265395)

Get a website so donations can start flowing in.

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1265900)

WWJD?