Re: I read David Norris's article....poor scholars
 

Where do you get that preaching means a sermon?

Your approach to others ("since nothing of substance, etc") is rather arrogant, and I think it's quite humorous that you can be so smug in your opinion while the majority percentage of Christian scholars disagree with you. Surely, that's at least enough reason to change your tone a hair.

Do tell what was "sloppy scholarship" in Norris' article. I thought it was well-written, at the same time realizing the page limitation. As far as your pal's opinion of 1 Cor 14, he's the foremost Greek scholar?? Really?? Why do you make such claims? I know several, whom I've read, including Gordon Fee, who believe differently. The verse does not fit the scope and nature of the letter, it jumps out of the text out of context, and it doesn't sound Pauline. We can accept it since we have no manuscripts that exclude it, but it's a pretty solid theory that this portion of the letter were likely added to the letter by someone else who thought this issue was important. Either way, your distinction of women prophesying, testifying but drawing a fence around preaching but what you call a "sermon" is quite an interesting definition for an unbiblical word.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Glad God has the last say...

Re: I read David Norris's article....poor scholars
 

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Yes, & He will judge by His written Word, as I understand it.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

...and His written word commands us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...sadly while we debate who is to preach the world rushes blindly to hell.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

While the church leaders agree all must hear and obey to be saved, the clergy fuss about who tells the story. What difference does it make which gender pulls a burning person from the flame? Or what difference does it make that a man or woman, male or female, saves the drowning persons from a torrid river? Did the horrified soldiers care who answered the call that icy March afternoon in 1869 when Ida Lewis responded with haste to rescue the crying voices from the choppy waves at Lime Rock Lighthouse in Newport. One of the drowning men lost hope when he saw that it was a woman who came rowing out to save them. However, he was soon to change his mind after the job was successfully accomplished. She had fierce strength that wasn’t hers alone. Later, a newspaper recorded that she said that the Lord Almighty gave it to her when she needed it the most. (Women of the Lights, Candice Fleming, Albert Whitman & Co., Morton Grove, IL, 1996, 21.)

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acts 1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Our Lord speaks without any limitation or restriction. The command is GO YE....this command is given to every believer...If we do not do this we are disobeying a commandment of our Lord...

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

. Romans 16:12 Salute Trephine and Tryphosa, who labor in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which labored much in the Lord. Trephine, and Tryphosa, women, and who labored much in the Lord. These are all women; yet the same apostle that wrote I Corinthians 14:34 said in I Corinthians 16:16, that ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboreth. (Be in subjection, RV) to everyone that helpeth with us and laboreth.

So it behoves us to rightly divide the scriptures...while you might not want a woman to be your pastor there are millions yea millions that women have ministered to over the years.... especially on the mission field.

Re: I read David Norris's article....poor scholars
 

Look if you want to be cocky and dismissive about it, your speech and debate vocabulary and throw-ins of the word "context" do nothing to show us how smart you are.

I was making a specific point about your hair splitting between preaching and sermonizing. Think it back over and maybe you'll catch that.

This Argumentum ad Populum rebuttal to everything is frankly old. My point was, and still is, if the majority of scholars that have examined these subjects, as well as the traditional and historical understanding conflict with your opinions, perhaps you should check your tone, and approach this with a little more humility than trying to come on here and shove your forceful opinion down every throat on AFF. I'm happy to interact with you despite a varying opinion like that. Cocky people just make me want to argue, and it detracts from real discussion.

Also, please elaborate further on your criticism of Norris' "sloppy scholarship." Be specific if you can. You like to type long responses, so you shouldn't mind that request :)

Why is Priscilla mentioned before Aquilla? What was their role? What about Nymphas?

My comments about 1 Cor 14 -- you dismiss it so quickly that it's hard to take you serious. Assertions? The evidence many scholars cite are not mere assertions. The topic of women being silent does not fit anywhere in the topic outline or scope of the Corinthian letter. I think it's a theory to consider. Even with it there, it must be reconciled with 1 Cor 11, where praying and prophesying are directed toward women. Nevertheless, what of Norris' suggestion that Text is dealing with husband and wives, as it says explicitly? Then there is the idea that Paul is citing a Corinthian question. Others suggest that the overall issue of disorderly prophesy and tongues is related to women that called out to their husbands in a disorderly way and took Paul's egalitarian "there is no male nor female" all the way until there was a violation of social order -- where there was no distinction of genders at their gatherings. But I'm anxious to hear a discussion on 1 Tim 2 further.

I try to reconcile that with those who helped lead the church in the NT that were, in fact, women.

If you wish to berate my intelligence, have at it. It only shows your own lacking. But if you wish to use your knowledge on this subject, and as you understand it, to interact on the points, then please do. But get off your dismissive 3-argument rebuttal. Because an argument is popular does not mean it's right, but it certainly lends much more credibility in the process of debate.

As far as your Greek pal, I won't research him. I don't care to. I just found it funny that you tried to use him as your trump card "expert," when in fact, there are hundreds of scholars that have written positions on this subject that would be in disagreement.