Apostolic Friends Forum - Christmas is pagan

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)

- Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - Christmas is pagan (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=51779)

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509673)

Suppose your relatives kept an annual holy day in honour of Baal every year. Would it be okay for you to come over and join their ceremonies? Nothing "unclean" about it? Nothing "unholy" about it?

God Himself commands us to avoid pagan religious practices, and explicitly commands us not to attempt to appropriate pagan devil worship into the worship of God. And you are saying it's a matter of "indifference"?

People say "doing it on that day is no different than doing it on any other day" yet I guarantee you don't do those same things on any other day, as a matter of regular custom. Sure, you may eat a meal and reflect on Christ on some other day, but do you do that on that other day - EVERY SINGLE YEAR? No, of course not. It's randomised.

But EVERY December 25th, certain things get done... that means you are observing that day as a special day of remembrance. It is DIFFERENT and SEPARATE FROM the other days of the years. THAT means it is "sanctified" or "holy" (although not sanctified by God). It is "holy" in your practice.

Just try SKIPPING that day this year - see if you don't get family asking "what's wrong, why don't you want to celebrate Christmas with us?"

It's like the addict saying "I can quit any time I want." Uh, suuuuure.

Nope. I do not plan on stopping because frankly I do not agree with your views on this. Celebrating Jesus on December 25 is not Pagan. Celebrating Roman garbage would be pagan, but I do not do that.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1509706)

Nope. I do not plan on stopping because frankly I do not agree with your views on this. Celebrating Jesus on December 25 is not Pagan. Celebrating Roman garbage would be pagan, but I do not do that.

Was celebrating Jehovah on the 15th day of the 8th month pagan? Ask Jeroboam.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509699)

1 Kings 12:26-33 And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: (27) If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. (28) Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (29) And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. (30) And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan. (31) And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. (32) And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. (33) So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.

What was the "sin of Jeroboam, whereby he made Israel to sin"?

He altered the divinely ordained worship of God. He did not call Israel to worship the deities of Canaan. Rather, he introduced innovations into the worship of Jehovah.

These innovations had four characteristics:

Doing what God had explicitly forbidden.
Doing what God had never commanded.
Not doing what God had explicitly commanded.
Doing what was invented by man.

God had forbidden the use of graven images in worship. Jeroboam introduced (in imitation of Aaron's sin at Sinai) the use of graven images in the worship of Jehovah.

God had never commanded any feast or holy day in the eighth month. Jeroboam introduced a non-Biblical holiday tied to worship of Jehovah.

God had commanded a feast to be kept in the seventh month. Jeroboam induced the people to abandon the divinely ordained seventh month feast as part of their worship.

Jeroboam's innovations were the product of his own devising, they were human inventions introduced as the means of worshipping God. Interestingly, his human inventions mirrored the common pagan religious practices of the surrounding heathen nations. When man begins to invent ways to worship God in place of the divinely ordained way, he typically falls into the same patterns of worship found in heathen paganism. Thus, the sin of Jeroboam is the sin of altering Biblical worship so that it imitates and mirrors pagan devil worship, which is exactly what Christmas does.

dude you rock!!!!!!

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509707)

Was celebrating Jehovah on the 15th day of the 8th month pagan? Ask Jeroboam.

I am not a Jew.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509707)

Was celebrating Jehovah on the 15th day of the 8th month pagan? Ask Jeroboam.

In the OT, God had a nation with set feast days and regulations that were far more focused on the earthly than what we see under the NT. I look at it this way... we have dominion. We can say a wreath no longer symbolizes somethin pagan, but rather it is just a beautiful decoration. We have dominion. I can decorate an artificial tree with my kids, goof off, sing silly songs, and put presents under the tree... knowing that it is only a cultural celebration and a time the historic church set aside to contemplate the incarnation. I know the day isn't "holy". I'd never call Christmas a "holy day". I only call it a "holiday" so people know what I'm talking about. There's nothing "holy" about December 25th. It's a day like every other.

I don't worship a Christmas tree. And for those who would argue that merely having a Christmas tree in the home is partaking in paganism... would they argue that merely hanging a cross on the wall or putting up a painting of Christ causes one to "partake in Christianity"? Of course not. In fact, I'd like to rub it in the face of pagans that I have a plastic mockery of what they used to think was so "holy" that I pull apart and put back together every year to use as a mere decoration. lol

Besides, the original "Christmas trees" were hung upside down. Christians who took up the practice actually stood the tree upright to declare that it was a symbol of Christ, the tree of life. If you see me start decorating an upside down tree affixed to the ceiling, then I think one could argue I was starting to get into paganism.

This is what a "pagan" Yule tree looks like:

http://www.decor4all.com/wp-content/...an-style-1.jpg

Here is what the "Christians" did to it to symbolize the living "tree of life":

http://prescottenews.com/images/stor...uther-Tree.jpg

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1509711)

I am not a Jew.

And I am not Groot.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1509714)

Good! So we can repurpose pentagrams and black candles for Jesus! Santeria, here we come!

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1509716)

Good! So we can repurpose pentagrams and black candles for Jesus! Santeria, here we come!

we can create a "Christian " Tarot deck using popular preachers as arcetypes.

Hmmmm It seems that I have drawn a Stoneking in the House of Hazlewood.

Whats it mean????

How do feel about uncut hair?

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediwill83 (Post 1509717)

"Christian Tarot Decks
Christian Tarot cards and decks with a strong emphasis on Angels, Jesus and his life, or the principles of Christianity."

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/christian.shtml

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/jesus-cards/

Re: Christmas is pagan