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-   -   Polygamy in the Bible (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=17559)

Aquila 08-10-2008 07:33 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 561637)
Wow! You keep coming up with new suprises!

You believe the Pharisees were the ones who kept the "letter of the Law"?? No wonder you keep missing this stuff….

The Bible describes the Sadducees as the Conservatives, and the Pharisees as the Liberals. Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines ‘conservative’ as “one who adheres to traditional methods or views,” and ‘Liberal’ as being “not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms.” The Sadducees rejected the traditions of man and embraced the "letter of the Law." The Pharisees believed in the written Torah, but interpreted them through their "traditions of the Elders" and "Oral Law." Consequently the Sadducees were more concerned with what the Word said a righteous man ‘can’t do,’ and the Pharisees were focused more on what a man ‘can do’ while yet remaining pious. We don’t find Jesus speaking against the Sadducees on many issues (some, but not much). However, we do find Him continually dealing with the doctrines of the Pharisees. As an example, look at this exchange between Jesus and the Pharisees:

Mark 7:5-13
(5) Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
(6) He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
(7) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(8) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
(9) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
(10) For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
(11) But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
(12) And ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother;
(13) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

After AD70, the Sadducees mostly disappear, but the Pharisees survive. Later they compiled the Talmud, which is a collection of rabbinical commentaries on the Mishna and Oral Law. These writings specifically focus on how these traditions are to be applied to their brand of Judaism. It is these teachings that are the foundation stones on which modern Judaism is primarily built.

Brother, you are doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING. You are neglecting God's Word and saying that if something stands in a convert's way, it is acceptable to bend the rules to accomodate them. Did you remember one of the Laws I asked about was Deuteronomy 13:6-10? Remember, it is the one that says a man is supposed to KILL his wife and children if they stands in his way of salvation. You said that was still acceptable. Now you say YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT HER AND HER KIDS??? :crazy

I guess you just post whatever is best for your case at the time???
Address the issue.

Aquila 08-10-2008 07:42 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 561644)
Okay Doc, I’ll bite….

The Bible says:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(28) If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
(29) Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; BECAUSE HE HATH HUMBLED HER, HE MAY NOT PUT HER AWAY ALL HIS DAYS.
There is a LOT of folks out there who committed fornication before marrying someone else. This says the man is commanded to marry the first girl and stay with her “ALL HIS DAYS.”
Address the issues you were presented with. Address the points made in posts 495 and 525.

Quote:
So there you go Doc. Know anybody who falls into that category? If so, and if they aren't with that 'old fling,' then you better go tell them to find a good lawyer because they’re living in adultery. Imagine the divorce rate in the Church with this one!
You're proving the point. ;)

We don't make people divorce, we don't make people marry the first person they were with. In like fashion I advocate that we were wrong to try to force this polygamous Ethiopian to divorce his second wife and abandon his children.

Quote:
Come on guys, your arguments are getting sillier and sillier! First it's okay to have as many wives as they did in the old west (whatever THAT means). And then its okay to kill your spouse, kids, and friends because certain cultures say it is. Now it's only certain sins are washed away? What's next???
Excessive exaggeration is tantamount to lying.

Dr. Vaughn 08-10-2008 08:05 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Marriage is a covenant. It stands, even if it happened before salvation. Else....we'd have to force couples to re-marry after getting saved!

Brother, this was an awesome statement and soo true.. if the old man dies at Calvary and so do any former vows and contracts.. I suppose that applies across the board and all new believers should be married again with new vows...

Aquila 08-10-2008 08:36 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn (Post 561703)
Marriage is a covenant. It stands, even if it happened before salvation. Else....we'd have to force couples to re-marry after getting saved!

Brother, this was an awesome statement and soo true.. if the old man dies at Calvary and so do any former vows and contracts.. I suppose that applies across the board and all new believers should be married again with new vows...
Amen. That's why I don't understand why so many think conversion automatically makes adulterous marriages "sanctified". Yet...they would argue that polygamous marriages (which aren't explicitly condemned in the NT) must be dissolved. For the sake of consistency, if they're going to break up a polygamous marriage... they should also refuse to acknowledge adulterous marriages in which a partner was previously married and put away on grounds other than fornication.

Evang.Benincasa 08-10-2008 08:59 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Bro. Benincasa....I think you're wresting Scripture. Spiritual principles aren't based on "math". Let's return to Scriptural examples and let me ask you....
It's all about math and it's you and your buds who can't count.
First Adam has one rib removed and is made one wife. It sets a Biblical precedent for marriage. Jesus has ONE wife for life, and that's His Bride, finishing the perfect picture of Biblical realtionship. The elders of the church are to reflect this by only having ONE WIFE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Was not Abraham one flesh with both Sarah and Hagar?
Gen 17:15-16

"And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy WIFE (SINGULAR), thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless HER (SINGULAR), and give thee a son also of HER (SINGULAR): yea, I will bless HER (SINGULAR), and SHE (SINGULAR) shall be a MOTHER (SINGULAR) of nations; kings of people shall be of HER (SINGULAR)."

Amazingly enough, God only acknowledges Sarah as Abraham's wife. Hagar is considered by God to be Sarah and Abraham's idea. Kind of a short cut to help God along, or should I say forcing God's hand.

Gen 16:2-5

"And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai Abram's WIFE (SINGULAR) took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to HER (SINGULAR) husband Abram to be his WIFE (SARAH AND ABRAHAM'S IDEA). And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes. And Sarai said unto Abram, MY WRONG BE UPON THEE: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: THE LORD JUDGE BETWEEN ME AND THEE."

The Lord judge between me and thee? Well, well, well, here we have Abraham's wife admitting that she was wrong, and that Abraham was to blame for allowing Sarah to do such a thing. God's plan was to use Abraham's wife of his youth, not some maid. The promise was only made to ONE WOMAN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Yes or no?
Only the one wife was legit in the eyes of God. The promise of Abraham goes through Abraham's wife of his youth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Was not Jacob one flesh with Leah, Rachel, and Bilhah?
Again here we have individuals using their own human will to get the job done.

Jacob was tricked into marrying Leah (not Jacob's intent,) and therefore he works seven more years to marry his original choice. Leah knows that Jacob didn't even like her, and since by the tradition of Jacob's people he was supposed to marry the first born, God had respect to Leah. Because Leah is the legal wife (first born daughter), Jacob knew the drill, but wanted to bypass the rules to marry the younger daughter. The father of Leah pulls the switch on Jacob.

Still you have the original wife being the first Leah, it's Jacob who agrees with Laban to gain the second choice. God honors the first and original wife by giving her the most children. Therefore showing us the blessing was upon Leah, the first and legal choice, the first born daughter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Was not Moses one flesh with both Zipporah and the "Ethiopian woman"?
Show me where Zipporah was still alive while Moses was married to Zipporah?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Was not David one flesh with Michal, Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, and Bathsheba?
David was instructed by the Torah not to do the above, and most of those marriages were done for political reasons as was the case in ancient society.

Deu 17:17

"NEITHER SHALL HE MULTIPLY WIVES TO HIMSELF, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
Was not Jacob both a polygamist and a type of Christ?
How can he be when Jesus only has one Bride? :ursofunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)

IF Jacob was an Old Testament type of Christ...would Christ be properly typified by an unrepentant man of an egregious sin like this if polygamy is indeed a sin?
IF a bullfrog hand wings he wouldn't bump his hindquarters every time he hopped.

Listen lad, maybe I need to type slower, JESUS ONLY HAS ONE BRIDE, ONLY ONE.

Yes or no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
God commanded that the Israelites take all the women as plunder...even though many of these soldiers were already married...
Deuteronomy 20:14
"14But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee."
Are you for real? So you claim the word "TAKE" means to marry?

Elder Burk, now Mr. Aquila has added pedophila and bestiality to his polygamy wierdness. Whatever, Aquila your last name wouldn't happen to be Jeffs would it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
If polygamy is a sin and not God's will...why did God command it? Is God a sinner?
God commanded it? Where did you see that in the Bible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 560888)
....and please don't run away and leave this thread without addressing these questions. I want to know how you answer. Especially since you accuse some brethren of "wresting Scripture".
Yes, you not only wrest the scripture but you make up this doctrine as you go along. I think your mother should roll up a newspaper and walk into your bedroom while you're posting and bust you across the nose.



In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Scott Hutchinson 08-10-2008 09:02 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Multiple wives would mean multiple maxed out credit cards.

TK Burk 08-10-2008 09:11 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 561697)
Address the issue.
I did.

Can't handle being wrong, eh?

TK Burk 08-10-2008 09:13 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 561699)
Address the issues you were presented with. Address the points made in posts 495 and 525.



You're proving the point. ;)

We don't make people divorce, we don't make people marry the first person they were with. In like fashion I advocate that we were wrong to try to force this polygamous Ethiopian to divorce his second wife and abandon his children.



Excessive exaggeration is tantamount to lying.
Why so angry?? I DID answer the points. If you will reread my post, you'll see I was answering Dr. Vaughn.

TK Burk 08-10-2008 09:14 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 561695)
Blah, blah, blah. You still still didn't even address the scenario given. Would you force this man to divorce his second wife, subjugating her and her children to a life of abuse, or allow him to keep her, teaching him that polygamy isn't our custom and that it stops with him?

Marriage is a covenant. It stands, even if it happened before salvation. Else....we'd have to force couples to re-marry after getting saved!
Angry again?? Wow! :crazy

Evang.Benincasa 08-10-2008 09:18 PM
Re: Polygamy in the Bible
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk (Post 561734)
Why so angry?? I DID answer the points. If you will reread my post, you'll see I was answering Dr. Vaughn.
Elder Burk doesn't this stuff get old quick?


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