Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1324518)

This is ridiculous! No one preaches physical act of speaking in tongues CAUSES salvation. Speaking in tongues is evidence of the Spirit already in a person. It's not the speaking in tongues that we want in order to be saved. It's the SPIRIT IN US. The evidence of a thing is not the the thing! And The SPIRIT is the goal, not its evidence. That write-up is simply dishonest!

And baptism is not categorized as a WORK for salvation. When the bible talks about works for salvation it is talking about efforts to make ourselves righteous, not all actions in and of themselves. If baptism is regarded as a work then so must the CHOICE to accept salvation be a work of the mind, and therefore a WORK, nonetheless, for salvation.

But baptism is the opposite of works to obtain righteousness. It is the BURYING and DEATH of all hopes of self doing anything to save self! We're good for nothing, as far as our works are concerned to save ourselves, so much so as to deserve death!

To write what this guy said about baptism and tongues is absolutely dishonest as well as wrong.

Originally Posted by NotforSale (Post 1324782)

But your claim incites that without Speaking in Tongues and Baptism, a person WILL NOT make it to Heaven.

Mike, that means they (Tongues and Baptism) are WORKS that cannot be truly gauged and allows impostors to sit on pews, fabricating the worst type of hypocrisy on the Planet. I have also watched countless people speak in Tongues and never come back to church again.

The Fruits of the Spirit are evident in a persons everyday lifestyle, not in Tongues or any other manifestation that really means absolutely, nothing. And that includes what a person does in Church on Sunday. It doesn't matter how loud you worship, how good you sing, and how holy you look.

IMO, God doesn't go to a Church, God goes everywhere, as isolating God to our group or idea is impossible.