Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Suppose your relatives kept an annual holy day in honour of Baal every year. Would it be okay for you to come over and join their ceremonies? Nothing "unclean" about it? Nothing "unholy" about it?

God Himself commands us to avoid pagan religious practices, and explicitly commands us not to attempt to appropriate pagan devil worship into the worship of God. And you are saying it's a matter of "indifference"?

People say "doing it on that day is no different than doing it on any other day" yet I guarantee you don't do those same things on any other day, as a matter of regular custom. Sure, you may eat a meal and reflect on Christ on some other day, but do you do that on that other day - EVERY SINGLE YEAR? No, of course not. It's randomised.

But EVERY December 25th, certain things get done... that means you are observing that day as a special day of remembrance. It is DIFFERENT and SEPARATE FROM the other days of the years. THAT means it is "sanctified" or "holy" (although not sanctified by God). It is "holy" in your practice.

Just try SKIPPING that day this year - see if you don't get family asking "what's wrong, why don't you want to celebrate Christmas with us?"

It's like the addict saying "I can quit any time I want." Uh, suuuuure.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

I respect you. And I respect your conviction and the conviction of all others who do not celebrate Xmas. Honestly, I hate it. I don't believe that "Jesus is the reason for the season." I do attend family get togethers and buy gifts for our children. My wife knows how I feel and we will NEVER decorate our home for Xmas or put up a tree. But to say that you are cut off from fellowship with Jesus if you celebrate it is baloney. I know many good strong Apostolics that celebrate it to one degree or another, and I have enough fear of God that I would never say they are cut off from fellowship with God because of a stupid holiday.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.

Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

Which one do YOU have?

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

1 Corinthians 10:18-22 KJV (18) Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? (19) What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? (20) But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

The apostle declared that participating in religious customs puts you in fellowship with the GOD SERVED BY THOSE RITES. The heathen customs are DEMONIC. Participation in heathen religious customs puts you in fellowship with DEMONS. Christians CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You cannot partake both of the Lord's table, and the table of demons. to put it simply, if you partake of the table of demons, you are cut off from the Lord's table. You cut off your fellowship with Christ.

Brother, I respect you too. But the Scripture says what it says. You CANNOT - C A N N O T - partake of BOTH the table of the Lord, AND the table of demons. That means it's either one... or the other. So if you pick one, you reject the other. God is a jealous God. Santa isn't. Santa doesn't care what you celebrate alongside him.

But God does.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

It can certainly be difficult to abandon long held traditions and practices. When we became convicted years ago to separate ourselves from pagan customs, it was difficult at first. Peer pressure is an incredibly powerful thing. We had to listen to relatives scold us for denying our children the fun of Halloween and Christmas. We had professing Christians scold us for not wanting to honour Jesus' birth. We were mocked and reproached. It took some time to wean our family off of these things. But by the grace of God we were freed from these pagan attachments.

We found that, over time, as we maintained consistency, others came to understand that we simply weren't going to participate in them. They quit harassing us about it. They came to respect our stand, at least when they were around us. What people say behind your back is irrelevant, you have no control over that. And I have found that people who reproach you behind your back will do so no matter WHAT you do.

It is always difficult and uncomfortable to cease old habits and begin new ones. But with time and being steadfast, the new way becomes normal, and the old ways "wax old and fade away."

We're all learning, and we're all at different stages in our understanding. But God is calling us all to come out from among the world and its ways, and be SEPARATE. Let's follow God, and leave the devil worship behind. Serving the devil never got us anywhere anyway.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

I think I just heard a rooster crow three times!!

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

I feel much the same way... no one knows when Christ was actually born, so any time is as good as any other to reflect on and contemplate the implications of the incarnation. The cultural practice of "Christmas" provides a historical context for this, and it allows for families to come together in love, generosity, and good will. It allows for a family reunion of sorts to break bread, share, and pass down family knowledge, traditions, and to see kids and introduce them to the family they too are a part of that they might not typically get to know. There is no harm in these things.

And as for many of the cultural traditions such as Christmas trees, wreaths, presents, Santa (St. Nicholas, bishop of Myra), Christmas cards, Yule logs, etc., are all so far removed from their "pagan" origins they are merely plastic cultural decorations and lights. With the nights being longer and the cold setting in, sometimes the lights can help bring some cheer.

Should we see any "spiritual" significance to these traditions? Should any of these traditions be regarded as "sacred"? No! They are merely cultural. What if someone feels like a plastic Christmas tree with lights and thin glass ornaments is of the devil? Well, since it is only cultural, it matters not if they wish to abstain from having a Christmas tree or from partaking in the festivities.

P.S.
Historical note. St. Nicholas was reportedly the Bishop of Myra, a city in ancient Turkey. It was a haven for Monarchians and Modalists who were influenced by Paul of Samosata. While Bishop Nicolas was reportedly present at the Nicene Council (Bishop 305), his name was later omitted from the final attendance roster at the end of the council. Some say it was because he physically struck Arius for denying that Jesus was God during the council's examination of the Arian heresy and was dismissed by the council. Others note that while Nicholas obviously believed that Jesus was God, he wasn't in agreement with the Trinitarian majority that had gained favor with the emperor and so excused himself from the proceedings. This would present the possibility that Nicholas was either a Modalist or a Monarchian himself. In Eutychius’ Arabic Origins of the Church Nicholas is listed as being of "Myrdan", which in Aramaic means, "Apostate". And so some scholars see this early Trinitarian reference to Nicholas as being, "Nicholas the Apostate", on account of what might have been his Modalistic beliefs. Many miracles were attributed to Nicholas' ministry, along with marked compassion for orphans and the poor. After Nicholas died, others continued to serve the poor by giving anonymous gifts in the name of Nicholas. Travelers to Myra were deeply moved at the compassion shown by the Christians in Myra who continued to give in secret in the name of Nicholas and sailors spread the practice to different shores, and thereby expanded the custom of giving anonymously in this Bishop's name. After many miracles and visions were attributed to Nicholas, even after his death, the church declared Nicholas a venerable Saint and established his feast day as December 6th (the day of his death). The feast was observed through anonymous gift giving in the name of Nicholas and extraordinary charity toward the poor to see them through the cold winter months that would follow. Having the feast of St. Nicholas on the 6th and the feast of Christ-Mass (Christmas) on December 25th proved problematic for pilgrims to observe, seeing the expense of extensive travel within a single month. When forced to choose, Christmas was deemed more holy and so most would only pilgrimage on Christmas, combining their the Feast of St. Nicholas observances with their Christmas observances. And so, St. Nicholas, gift giving, and charity towards the poor became integrated into Christmas. Many legends, miracles, and even blended myths eventually became associated with St. Nicholas and various local customs evolved to honor the saint. When those who observed the Feast of St. Nicholas came to the New World, their languages pronounced his name "Sinterklas" or "Sant Iklaus." This morphed into the name, "Santa Claus". Coke-a-Cola ran with this and published advertisements of St. Nicholas in his red pajamas getting up in the middle of the night to begin his visitations with a bottle of Coke-a-Cola. This image of St. Nicholas in red pajamas and his red pajama hat became immortalized in the American psyche and so the American concept of St. Nicholas became the image of him we know today.

My point? The tradition of "Santa Claus" is a distinctly "Christian tradition" of anonymous giving that was eventually incorporated into what we know as Christmas today. In addition, the historical "Santa Claus" may have been an ancient champion of Oneness.

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Re: Christmas is pagan
 

This discussion has been hashed on here every year. I think Esaias is just to cheap to buy gifts!!

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Hurry and repent!

Re: Christmas is pagan