Apostolic Friends Forum - McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

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Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david (Post 1380138)

:clap :clap :yourock :highfive :clap :clap

Some people just need to, in the immortal (or immoral) words of Taylor Swift, just "Shake it off."

Or to remain biblical, do what Paul did when the viper attached itself to his hand - shake it off.

Bitterness and unforgiveness will send a person to hell.

I'll post again, Jesus' parable of the unforgiving servant who was forgiven much but refused forgiveness for a small amount owed him. He was brought back before the Lord of the servants and all his previously forgiven debts were put back on him.

A person can argue all they want, but if they refuse to forgive someone, when judgement day comes, all their previously remitted sins will be heaped back upon them and they will be judged and cast into hell.

N David, you sir are a 100% correct! :thumbsup

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan (Post 1380141)

I don't know personally anything about this pastor or church. If this pastor has done the things that he is accused of then he is simply reaping what he has sown. I don't agree with taking a bro. to law, but there is a uniqueness when a pastor has gotten so high that there is not anyone to pull his coat tail. If these accusations are true then nothing else may be done.

HH if I were you I would steer clear of this thread and do not allow bitterness to rule your life. I have seen some pastors who were as you described, but I stayed away. I pray for them. We speak of forgiveness, but that is easy to say when it isn't something that is affecting us. You will have to make the effort to bury the hatchet.

I am not saying that forgiveness and reconciliation are the same. I could never call this man a brother (based on your info.), but I would pray for his soul and hope that God would change him. These threads that just bash on people are not pleasing to God. All these threads started just to slander someone isn't apostolic. Paul did give warnings in his letters, but they were brief and to the point. We sometimes have to call something out, but then we must move on.

:highfive

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1380208)

God led you there in 1999? I think you are more hurt, than bitter. But hurt turns to anger, and when you keep the anger going and find an audience to cheer you on, then it turns to bitterness. By that point it starts to fester and then turns to gangrene. Yet, this gangrene isn't the type that just kills you, but all those around you. You are supposed to carry your cross, not struggle and bleed on it. Let me say this, but when you have a problem with someone, YOU are the ONLY ONE with the problem. It messes you up, it gets uploaded in your mind. The other individual[s] may not know, or even care about the issues that caused you to feel upset and angry. The only way to get free is to forgive them by loving them. 1999 was a long time ago, not every day you were with these preachers was Jones Town. You still have good memories, remember God led you there? HH, you got to be the bigger kid in the sand box, no one else on the planet. Brother, if it was easy, then everyone would be doing it, and God didn't have to robe Himself in flesh to show us how to git it done.

This is an interesting comment, but why are you here beating the drum against this church to a bunch of strangers who are perfectly comfortable in the Apostolic One God Jesus name movement? Yet, you are leaving your family members, people who mean way more to you then us in a situation you believe to be harmful? Still to top all that you are waiting for God to give them some sort of an epiphany? HH, again, you sound hurt and angry. Therefore you are still being controlled by those who upset you. Forgive them, cut off the gangrene, and allow Jesus Christ to take care of you and your old pastor. I'm not trying to say that you have to take long strolls on the beach with the guy, but when you and he meet around town you can genuinely feel peace, instead of sick to your gut.

So, you come to a forum to put ill thoughts into the minds of strangers?
I realize you want to vent all this out, but in the Christian mind set the whole thing is counter productive. In the long run it will not help you, and your family won't get any revelation if you are not totally at peace with your old church.

Wait, you are looking for God to pull rabbits out of the hat for your family, but won't wish the same thing for the pastor, his wife, his children, the other saints you left behind? Listen HH, wanting cookies and milk for our family members is easy, wanting them for people we have issues with is the miraculous. :)

Well, it is a wee hard to see in your postings. I understand you love Jim and his wife, but maybe you need to all have a prayer meeting about the litigations. Turn the other cheek is followed swiftly by allowing those who sue you take everything from you. Now that might make you'll happy if your old pastor emptied the church bank account, sold everything he owned and gave it all over to you and your friends. But that would make him the richer, and you not. You all might win, be able to have the church disbanded, the property sold, and have the preacher, his wife, with children thrown in the stocks in the village square. Where all the citizens of McMinnville can all take turns pelting them with rotten eggs, and tomatoes. But, in the years to come, won't make anything that happened any better. Time marches forward, and so does everyone else. Again, you are willing to allow your family to sit under the man's ministry without a peep from you, but you won't wish the same for the preacher?

I sure did. :nod

I'll chew on that for sure.
Also, my family won't leave for various reasons just like a lot don't leave other poisonous situations or relationships. Hell is hot and the fear of it is hotter.
Lots of great people I will miss them.

As for you guys winning. I'm not suing. I am a little upset at the situation if you can't tell but it is not me in the suit. I won't lie or sugar coat when the time comes but I will not exaggerate (lie) either. Facts are facts no more no less.
I will get nothing from this and the church won't be gone. Bill Davies and Matt will continue to push on just like a Surgeon that performs with out a license and has a few casualties along the way. That is mostly what this is about.

We shall see what the end of all this is but as you so eloquently stated I will move on in the Lord. Pastor Peterson is a great man and willing to do what it takes so the ones that left have a church to go to in town. 9 total so far plus a countless amount from years past that have made contact.

All things work together for Good (not just the good things but all things). As long as you live the Lord.
I have been aittl ruff I guess but again Work in progress is what I am and boy oh boy am I.

A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.

This is my scripture. I work on it daily. I was a fool that had a mouth just to stir up trouble.
I will not say I'm not going to comment on any debates but for me this thread is dead. i have said all that I can say.
I will pop on if someone asked a question but as for Bill and Matt? Let the dead burry their dead. As Jesus so eloquently stated.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1380193)

Godsdrummer, I can certainly grasp what you are saying, I just happen to disagree with it. When a guy chooses not to buy something, it ain't always cause he don't have the money...

But, since you think numerous parts of scripture are not authoritative, based on what you think is "currently relevant", we really can't go any further, since I happen to think all of scripture is relevant.

Yes I know that. Based on other post through out this forum (correct my if I am wrong) you are a Sabbath keeper, you believe Paul commanded women to not cut their hair or and to wear a veil. Along with a women must keep silent in the church.

At least you can grasp what I am saying even if you don't agree with it.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1380196)

Defending a bad pastor? I don't know the guy, do you? GD with all due respect, do you know him? There is no defending any preacher, just pointing out that an individual joined the forum to drag around an individual you or I don't know anything about. Bad pastor? Where did you get that from? Turn the other cheek is followed by not suing someone. It doesn't get any easier than that. Every post from HH, has something to do with his fresh wounds.

Quote:

No I don't know him personally, I do know of him, my cousin was in his church and he made my cousins wife divorce him, I won't go into the particulars other than to say that it was unjustified and that my cousin lost all faith in God over this. And that is only one instance of the things that I have heard concerning this pastor in the last 10 years. And further I know the ilk of these pastors not just him because I attended one of their like churches in Oregon for two years, and personally know the mind set of two other pastors in this group. These are not Godly men.

I said the early church didn't have leadership problems because the apostles kicked butt? Where did I say that the early church didn't have leadership problems? I said that one man leadership wasn't a problem until Diotrephes, it also speaks of other individuals but they look as if they worked as a team. The apostles and eldership took care of everything in house and didn't take each other before secular law systems. Read my post again below now that I have clarified the position.

Quote:

You are right I did miss read you post. although I am still not sure of the point you were making.

We believe in the Eternal God-head who has revealed Himself as ONE God existing in THREE persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; distinguishable but indivisible. Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14

http://www.citybiblechurch.org/what-we-believe/

Sound like Trinitarians to me. :)

And the point I was making is that you judge trinitarians as unsaved, simply because they don't understand the Godhead the same as you. When they is not one scripture that says one must have a perfect understanding of the deity of God to be saved. The same goes for baptism, I have expressed my understanding in other threads, I see no need to reiterate them again. The fact is (if I understand you) you feel if one is not baptized by a oneness so called man of God with the words Jesus name quoted over them they are not saved. I disagree.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1380243)

GD, we aren't talking about individuals, we are talking about teachers of doctrines, Christology, eschatology, soteriology, etc. So, if a church whose ministry is Trinitarian they are focused on teaching that doctrine. Which is three separate individual persons who work together as one unified effort. While all three are act alone in their particular office, they never hold each other's office. Therefore making them individually gods. While a Trinitarian will refuse to accept that they do indeed believe in three separate gods, the simple logic remains. God remains at the center of the triangle, the son is god, the father is god, and the spirit is god, yet the son isn't the father, nor is the father the son. The son isn't the spirit, nor is the spirit the father. This is all pretty simple, and no mystery. These are all individuals who hold their own role, never interchange their roles, but are all individually gods. Knowing God is knowing His role in His Kingdom. If your protology is off, your eschatology will be also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1380243)

The same goes for baptism, I have expressed my understanding in other threads, I see no need to reiterate them again. The fact is (if I understand you) you feel if one is not baptized by a oneness so called man of God with the words Jesus name quoted over them they are not saved. I disagree.

Then logically you would also believe that any sort of baptism wasn't necessary. Concerning who baptizes who, no, you don't understand me. The evangelist Timothy was told to lay hands on no man suddenly so he wouldn't be partakers in another man's sins. This has nothing to do with baptism but with ordination. Yet, when the Pharisees came to John the Baptist's baptism they were rejected, Jesus also told His apostles in John 20:23, Matthew 18:18, saying "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” Also "I assure you: Whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven." This isn't talking about Catholic or Eastern Orthodox priests handing out absolution, or that Charismatics have the power to create new doctrines for the church. These verses have to do with elders and baptism. Now, does it mean that a minister forgives you of sin? Hence it is erased in heaven? No, salvation is YOU and YOUR trust in the SAVIOR. Hence the minister is the one administrating the baptism but it is all on the one being baptized who will determine the outcome. Remember Jesus called the religious leadership of His day blind leaders of the blind, but Paul in Romans 2:19-20 that the new convert was blind, needed light, needed instruction, new converts were referred to as babies, and both Jesus and Paul teach that the elders were to bring these individuals to maturity. Now, while baptism totally relies on the one being baptized, the one who would administer baptism should understand what Phillip understood when the eunuch asked the question “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” The eunuch has enough of a Bible study that he knew one thing, he needed to be baptized, and yet, he understood that he needed to ask what was the requirement of his baptism. Phillip then tells the neophyte what he had to do, "if you trust with all your being, you may" Then the eunuch confession that he trusts that Jesus is Messiah the Son of God. Now, baptism is administered. I believe that the church is governed by elders, the apostles were mobile, like the evangelists, the apostles set things in order Titus 1:5, and the evangelists built up on the foundation which was laid out Ephesians 4:11-12, pastor teachers taught, and really prophets kicked tail ends 1st Samuel 16:4.

As far as your cousin's experiences in the other church I don't know your cousin. You were in a type of church like the McMinnville church? Same but different? We would have to weigh out the same, and find out the differences.

Again, you don't know the preacher, you know of the preacher, and therefore he is bad. I don't know him, but this thread sure wasn't the place to find out all things and hold to that which is good. So, pray for the bad pastor (since you are sure he is indeed bad) and hope you never get in the same cross hairs he is currently in.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH (Post 1380214)

:thumbsup :highfive

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1380252)

GD, we aren't talking about individuals, we are talking about teachers of doctrines, Christology, eschatology, soteriology, etc. So, if a church whose ministry is Trinitarian they are focused on teaching that doctrine. Which is three separate individual persons who work together as one unified effort. While all three are act alone in their particular office, they never hold each other's office. Therefore making them individually gods. While a Trinitarian will refuse to accept that they do indeed believe in three separate gods, the simple logic remains. God remains at the center of the triangle, the son is god, the father is god, and the spirit is god, yet the son isn't the father, nor is the father the son. The son isn't the spirit, nor is the spirit the father. This is all pretty simple, and no mystery. These are all individuals who hold their own role, never interchange their roles, but are all individually gods. Knowing God is knowing His role in His Kingdom. If your protology is off, your eschatology will be also.

Quote:

Forgive me, I disagree, how long did you attended a trinity church? And how long ago? If not you don't know what you are saying. Seems to me you are hung up over the term trinity, and judge them as lost based on your view of the trinity. I assume you would think the church I attend at present are lost because they baptize "in the name of the father son and holy ghost which is Jesus". There are as many views and understanding of the trinity as there are of oneness. Just that the trinitarian churches don't make the trinity an issue as the oneness do. In the last 10 years attending a trinitarian church I have not once heard teaching of the trinity. They center their teaching on Godly living not so called doctrinal issues as do oneness.

Quote:

Sorry again I disagree with your premise that baptism must be administered by a so called minister. Again we have had this discussion other places on this forum not going to reiterate it all again. Other than to say I feel you are reading into the passages you quote things that are not meant. I will say that you contradict yourself, when you use the passage in Matt 18 to say Christ gave ministers authority, yet back pedal and say that they don't forgive sins by their word, but it is on the person being baptized. Seems you reject the words of Christ when he said "whosoevers sins you forgive shall be forgiven them". Yet give ministers authority that Christ said shall not be so in Matt 20.

As far as your cousin's experiences in the other church I don't know your cousin. You were in a type of church like the McMinnville church? Same but different? We would have to weigh out the same, and find out the differences.

Quote:

And I did not say the "same but different" these churches are all of the same mind set. Period. And I did not say my cousin was in another church he was in the McMinnville church under this pastor in question.

Again, you don't know the preacher, you know of the preacher, and therefore he is bad. I don't know him, but this thread sure wasn't the place to find out all things and hold to that which is good. So, pray for the bad pastor (since you are sure he is indeed bad) and hope you never get in the same cross hairs he is currently in.

And while you may think that this thread is not good, I again disagree, these types of pastors need to be exposed that God fearing saints would not fall under the control of any like them. Trust me I do not rejoice on stories like this, and while you may disagree with me when I say I don't need to know this pastor personally when I say I know his philosophy, I sat under one of these pastors for two years, (they are the same group and teach the same things). That being said they are no better or worse than the religious leaders of Christ day, when he said "you shut up the kingdom of God to those that would enter by your doctrines and traditions of men"

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1380265)

"you shut up the kingdom of God to those that would enter by your doctrines and traditions of men"

What's the scripture reference for this - B/C/V?

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH (Post 1380214)

:yourock