Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

[QUOTE=Godsdrummer;1379935][QUOTE]good samaritan;1379878]

I agree to some degree. Do you think we should start selling our possession and let the apostles displace them so that all the church would have things common? I think you are taking the things like the roles of ladies in the church and saying it was cultural. In other words I am understanding that you are saying the early church had multiple pastors and we must be identical to be Biblical. I am understanding you also are saying that the teaching against women in authority, though was cultural and we don't have to be identical to that. It would seem that there is contradiction in the way you are coming to your conclusions.




Positional leaders have authority only through the word of God. Pastoring is nothing but serving. In most cases pastors are not just bossing people around they are doing all they can to help people stay on track. I am sorry for whatever experience makes you feel like pastors are domineering over people.



A bishop is a position.

How do you reconcile this other than saying it was cultural and just don't matter any more. This answer is not good enough for me. If anyone can offer a scriptural answer I will be glad to hear. Sis Alvear I have much respect for her spirit and the work she has done, but I still can't find peace in the scripture about ladies in authority over men. I promise I am not trying to be a chauvinists, but I just can't in good conscious.


Just because someone is proven doesn't mean they cannot fall. They dealt with similar problems in the early church. Wolves has always been around.




I disagree, sometimes the people who are imperfect cause the problems, but the system will work. The wheat and the tares come up together and one day it will get sorted.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

OK, let me explain it this way, if you look at the two thousand years of Christendom you will see that pagan practices were added into Biblical Christianity. While we are dancing around four of them on the list, the apostle gave them enough information to indicate to 1st Century Romans that paganism wasn't going to be baptized into their new found religious worship.
So, since we are talking culture, what happened when this religion pressed on to other parts of the world was it OK to incorporate any other pagan worship just as long as it wasn't found on Acts 15:20's the list?

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

You just said it. In two thousand years pagan practices have been added to Christianity. And I am not dancing around just four of them because in today's society the list is almost innumerable. And that goes to our church hierarchy. This was not as it was in the NT church but added by the pagan practices of RC. Whether you want to believe it or not.
It was the Roman Catholic church that decreed that only certain people had the authority to decipher scripture, not the church. Face it our church hierarchy was passed down to us from the Catholic church, albeit watered down today, but still not biblical.
When Christ said, "there shall not be a singular one over the rest of the body" he meant it. The whole purpose of the church meeting in Acts 15 was because they worked as a unit not singular. Or there would not have been a need for the meeting. Because if you believe the RC teaching, not only was Peter the pastor of the Jerusalem church but the first Pope, he would have simply made the determination himself.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

Loren, exactly, that is why the Lord chose a committee of 12 leaders, not just 1 Apostle.(why dont churches(heirarchy's), other than Mormons use 12 today?)

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

With 12 leaders, if 1 falls, then they can be replaced without the whole thing collapsing in.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

Our church uses a council of Elders who collectively pray and make decisions together with the ministry. Some of them are in various forms of ministry, some are just trusted Elders, full of the Holy Ghost and faith.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

I don't know if we are on the original subject any longer. It seems this thread has taken the Apostolic rabbit trail, as most eventually do. Just a couple of words about the McMinnville issue.

I don't know if anybody else here actually knows Bill and Matt Davies. My wife and I have known them for years, used to attend services at their church occasionally, and hung out with Matt and the Davies girls as young people. My wife grew up with Matt Davies. I think Elder Elpley fellowships with them, or at least with others who do. The Davies' left the UPC around 15-20 years ago. The general reason that was discussed at the time was that Bill Davies wanted to be the Oregon Dist Superintendent, and when he didn't get it he left in a huff. Since I have left the UPC, I know you can't always trust what is floated, so what I do know is he was a great bit more "conservative" than even the rest of the UPC Oregon dist., which is very "conservative" to begin with.

So this Pastor is well known for his extra mean spirit, and for his ultra controlling nature. I could give many examples. The city of McMinnville is full of ex-members of this church that are beat up from the years they attended, and all believe they are bound for hell if they don't return to that church and submit to the abuse of this man. He often uses his pulpit to abuse members of the church. Some friends of ours who were UPC missionaries and long time Pastors and servants in the UPC went to that church after they retired (their daughter attends), and because they were UPS they were verbally abused consistently from the pulpit. We visited with them a couple of times before they passed, and they said it was like being in hell going to that church ... the Pastor demanded that none of the "saints" fellowship with these evil UPC adherents, etc., etc.

After we left the UPC we had several people come back to Jesus in our church who were former members, and some of the stories were almost unbelievable of the kind of abuse that happens from the pulpit in this church ... and if I hadn't heard it from multiple people who were unaffiliated I may have a hard time believing that a man could have this type of power over people.

I believe the issues is not just that people did work around the church for no pay, but that the Davies actually used labor in their personal businesses from church people without pay ... which is a common occurrence in this church. In addition, it wasn't just defamation of character, the Pastor demanded that nobody in the church d business with the man who is suing as well. I think he has a pretty good case. Unfortunately The Davies' have the money to pay for a very good attorney, don't know if the other guy does.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

Yet, one man leadership wasn't found in Acts 15:20, because it wasn't an issue until Diotrephes was φιλοπρωτεύω (one who is ambitious to be first) started to speak against the other "elders." Also throwing out any opposition to his ministerial leadership. Back in those days an apostle just came by and kicked some hind quarters, no one was sued, but the apostle took care of the situation.

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

They took care of the situation face to face, one on one .... that is not how this man deals with things ... he rakes people over the coals in front of the church so that "all may learn to fear."

Re: McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamati
 

So, is he all alone now?

Or should I say how many people are still there?