Apostolic Friends Forum - Christmas is pagan

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Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

If there is no overt idolatry associated with a piece of food sold in the market, then don't sweat it. If you order Chinese takeout don't fret about whether or not the cook burned some incense and made an offering to Buddha over your meal. However, and this is key, if it is pointed out that paganism is definitely involved, then DO NOT EAT. Why? To avoid even the appearance of countenancing and supporting idolatry.]

The point is, who even knows anything about pagan origins of Christmas except believers like yourself who researched the issue?

Quote:

5. Food sold in a market, and actual rituals of idolatry, are two very different things. A pine tree, even a tree sold at a Christmas tree lot, is just a tree. Just like "Christmas lights" are just stringed lights. Nothing wrong in and of themselves. But observing a pagan holy day, and replicating pagan ACTS OF WORSHIP (idolatrous rituals), using said tree or lights, is a whole nother matter. There is far more to Christmas than a random tree and a random decorating of said tree. It occurs on a particular day, on a yearly basis, for particular (religious) reasons. It is NOT just about home decor.

Not if the tree is not used as a form of worship, but decoration. If the world around us was erecting trees in their homes and decorating them and practiced outright idol worship of Tammuz or Osiris, that would be one thing for us to take that and use it for decorations, even if there was no worship in our use of them. It would give the appearance of idolatry as though we practiced with the world around us in their idol worship. But it's far from that.

Quote:

Suppose one bought food sold in the market place, and replicated the act of offering it in sacrifice to Zeus, as much as possible, so that it was DISTINCTLY the rite of Zeus, but simply said "Jesus" instead of Zeus, would Paul approve of that? Hardly.

I agree.

If it's just decoration there is no worship involved.

The only ones this would "offend" are not even offended really, but are people whose consciences were weakened when initially they weren't, by folks who rail on the issue Not accusing anyone here of railing.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1555487)

The point is, who even knows anything about pagan origins of Christmas except believers like yourself who researched the issue?

Thank you! This has been the point all along.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1555487)

The point is, who even knows anything about pagan origins of Christmas except believers like yourself who researched the issue?

So, ignorance is bliss? Really? Who even knows about pagan origins of trinity doctrine except us curmudgeons who research these things? Your response makes no sense to me, you seem to be saying since people keep Christmas with no understanding of its pagan origins then... it's all hunky dory?

Like, heathens who don't no any better are better off not hearing the gospel in the first place, because their ignorance would somehow excuse them? I mean that's the only thing I can figure out that you're trying to get at here, that most people don't know the origin of what they believe and practice, so it's no big deal, there's no sin involved?

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1555484)

I did read what you said. I maintain that my thought does not follow through the way you claim it does, since my thought involved the fact that we are not to worship with these things. Worshiping God using icons is worship, which I dislcaimed.

Christians keep Christmas as an act of worship. They are "celebrating the birth of Jesus", they claim the tree represents eternal life, there are religious reasons used for the gift giving, etc. The more devout actually attend services on that day, it is a dedicated HIGH HOLY DAY of Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, and Anglican churches. The very name is Christ's Mass, or Feast of the Nativity.

In this thread and every other Christmas thread Christians have given RELIGIOUS reasons for observing the holy day. To say keeping Christmas is not an act of worship is ridiculous.

Do many keep the day for purely secular reasons? Sure! Just like a lot of people do Easter and Halloween for secular reasons. Does that make Easter and Halloween non religious? No, it just means such persons are practical atheists.

Re: Christmas is pagan

I suggest that a lot of Americans - Baptists and Pentecostals in particular - do not understand what worship is, or what it involves. They say "we aren't worshipping when we keep Christmas." The claim rings hollow, however, when you consider they are keeping a feast dictated by the Catholic Church when it syncretised with and adopted the liturgical calendar and feast days of Mithraism.

Celebrating the birth of Jesus? Not an act of worship? Really? In that case, neither is the Lord's Supper an act of worship.

Re: Christmas is pagan

The pagan roots of holidays are common knowledge.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...K3n?ocid=ientp

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1555495)

Is it OK to celebrate the birth of Christ? Can his birth be celebrated with a feast and gifts? Can this take place on Dec 25?

Re: Christmas is pagan

Maybe everyone should read 1Corinthians 8.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1555496)

The pagan roots of holidays are common knowledge.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...K3n?ocid=ientp

I would suggest running over to your local mall and spending the day surveying. Get back with us with your results as they won't match a Woman's Day article.

Re: Christmas is pagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1555500)

I would suggest running over to your local mall and spending the day surveying. Get back with us with your results as they won't match a Woman's Day article.

They likely will match as Woman's Day is a main stream popular magazine. No scholarly research required.