Apostolic Friends Forum - Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

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Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1533721)

Then you have no measurement of length, what is long? This wasn't their understanding for centuries, because of the language. Like I pointed out in Latin. It is mainly translated nutriat because of the Greek. The Spanish is way more defined than English. Because we don't know what long is? Unless we are given a measurement of length. It is a shame for a man to have long hair? How long is long hair? Ponytail on the bald guy driving the Corvette?

What is short?

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Or, how can we know if a man has long hair?

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costeon (Post 1533725)

Or, how can we know if a man has long hair?

Exactly.

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costeon (Post 1533725)

Or, how can we know if a man has long hair?

It’s easy really. If you are a man, and your hair is longer than mine, it is too long. If your hair is shorter than mine, well you are obviously waaaay too legalistic, and are possessed of the spirit of the Pharisees.

See how easy it is?

You’re welcome.

Glad I could help.

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costeon (Post 1533707)

First, thank you for the info.

Now regarding the quote, though this has been a common idea among Apostolics, I think it is almost impossible to maintain. The verse this idea rests on is 11.6: "For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered."

So the contrast is between "shorn" and "shaved." There is really no debate on what "shaved" means so I won't address it. But does "shorn" simply mean "to cut"? If someone looked the word up in a Greek lexicon, they might be able to maintain this definition, but the meaning of words is not determined by looking at a lexicon or dictionary alone; you have to look up the contexts in which the word occurs to determine the range of meaning of this word and to truly understand the lexicon definition. There are only two places besides 1 Cor 11 in the NT where this verb is used that shed light on the meaning of the word. In neither is the idea to simply cut.

Acts 8.32: "The place in the Scripture he read was this: 'He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so He opened not His mouth.'"

"Shearer" is not a noun in the Greek but a participial form of the verb that appears in 11.6.

So the first example is dealing with shearing sheep--not trimming them a bit but cutting off their wool.

Acts 18.18: "So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow."

So here, Paul didn't get his hair trimmed--he didn't go for just a regular hair cut--he had all his hair ceremonially cut off (similar to Num 6).

Since in the other NT contexts this verb does not mean "to cut" but "to cut off," there is no reason to interpret 1 Cor 11.6 as "to cut." In other words, in this verse Paul is contrasting similar things--shaving off and cutting the hair off--not dissimilar things--shaving and trimming.

"The Greek verb translated as “shorn” (κείρασθαι) appears in the middle voice indicating that the action is performed upon—or with reference to—the subject. Here’s what some of the most authoritative lexicographers in existence state about this specific term: “Mid. [voice] cut one’s hair or have one’s hair cut…Abs(olute sense)…I Cor. 11:6a, b” (Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon; 2nd ed., p. 427 [BDAG affirms the same thing}). “To have one’s hair cut” (Dr. F.W. Gingrich’s, Shorter Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, p. 114).

*Analytical Greek NT Lexicon: “middle cut one’s hair, have one’s hair cut off (1 C 11.6).”

*Louw & Nida’s Greek-English Lexicon Based upon Semantic Domain: 19.23 “κείρω to cut the hair of a person or animal – to cut hair, to shear. εἰ γὰρ οὐ κατακαλύπτεται γυνήκαὶ κειράσθω if the woman does not cover her head, she might as well cut her hair 1CO. 11.6″

*For these grammatical reasons, many linguists have translated this verb as “cut off,” or simply “to cut” (e.g., RSV, NEB, Holy Bible from Ancient Eastern Manuscripts, NAB, NIV, Amplified Bible, James Moffatt).

*Additionally, on p. 245 of the United Bible Societies A Translators Handbook on Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians, we read: “To be shorn, literally ‘cut-her-hair’ in Greek, probably referred to a regular trimming of her hair.”

*This is the lexical definition of the verb translated “shorn/κείρασθαι” and hence is the very thing the Holy Spirit is prohibiting through the writings of the Apostle Paul.

*Regarding the adjective translated “shame (or) disgrace” (v. 6), see here BAGD, p. 25: “it is disgraceful…for a woman to cut her hair.” Thayer’s; p. 17: “disgrace, dishonorable.” Louw & Nida: “since it is shameful for a woman to shave or cut her hair, she should cover her head 1CO. 11:6.”

This is Brother Roger Perkins article he answers all this very well.
*What does “long hair” mean? We will define it in two ways: (i) The literal definition of the word itself (which should be sufficient standing alone); (ii) Its usage else were in Scripture.

*Long Hair: First, as we’ve seen above, the Greek term translated “long hair” is komaō and is defined as, “to allow the hair to grow.” If one cuts their hair they are not “allowing it to grow,” particularly since the hair grows from the root and not the ends."

It all boils down to this : "Obviously, someone cannot allow hair to grow and cut it at the same time, particularly since the hair grows from the root & not the ends."

Above breaks down shorn and shaven they are equal to one another. Not as interchangeable words, but two different words with 2 different meanings.

Here's the link one more time..
https://apostolicacademics.com/2016/...from-i-cor-11/

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1533733)

http://mynewlifechurch.com/wp-conten...ge-300x155.gif

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen (Post 1533738)

*Long Hair: First, as we’ve seen above, the Greek term translated “long hair” is komaō and is defined as, “to allow the hair to grow.” If one cuts their hair they are not “allowing it to grow,” particularly since the hair grows from the root and not the ends."

It all boils down to this : "Obviously, someone cannot allow hair to grow and cut it at the same time, particularly since the hair grows from the root & not the ends."

After cutting the ends (stopping growth? huh?) when does it start to grow again? Immediately? Two weeks? A month?

If the issue isn't long or short (???!) but "growing or not" then is it not okay for a man to have hair down to his belt - as long as it's "cut"?

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1533759)

This was dealing with women hair specifically Brother. That was just a piece of what was said. All its saying is you can't be growing your hair long and cut it at the same time.

But I got this all from Brother RDP's article here's the link:
https://apostolicacademics.com/2016/...from-i-cor-11/

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

The Nazarite was especially separated to God, cut off from wine and grapes (representing blessings of ordinary life) and cut off from burying the dead, including their own family members (representing separation from one of the inevitable duties of ordinary life). The Nazarite was ceremonially separated to God and ceremonially separated from ordinary society. This was symbolized with the hair. Men grw their hair out like women, taking upon themselves society's "shame" as a representation of sanctification to God. Women shaved their hair off, again representing a societal "shame" as an old covenant, typological symbol of separation from the world and separation to God.

The ascetic in every culture is "outside the societal norms" in regards to dress and appearance, one way or the other. With the Nazarite, the man wore his extra-normal societal "shame" during the vow. The woman wore hers at the end of the vow. Both were identified by behaviors during the vow (no wine, no dead bodies, etc).

The Nazarite vow was a time in which a person symbolically withdrew from ordinary human society. Therefore, the requirements (no grapes/wine, no touching the dead, growing the hair out then shaving it off) were such that separated the vow taker from his or her ordinary lifestyle and customs, whether male or female.

Re: Uncut Hair and the Nazirite Vow for Women

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen (Post 1533760)

So a man with five feet of hair but who trims it regularly isn't "komao" -ing his hair.