Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1454406)

I think a fairer characterization, EB, is the fuller one. Of course, you might ask a question if something is unclear;
but then, that puts you in a position you don't like too much, huh, Evangelist?

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1454439)

Yes, sorry i am not more logical, my apologies. I did my best to point to "Get Word, however you can, even if it is through OP, the way i (eventually) got there."

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1454439)

The best thing someone could do, imo, is not relevant to most any adult that would ask this, see,
and so really, it would not matter what i said to them, if they could not hear "Go find EB's 12 tribes."

Would i invite them into worshipping Christ like a snake on a pole? No, but neither do the 12 tribes, right? So, in the same manner that i did not come here
suggesting that anyone needs to follow me or be doomed--sound familiar?--i simply tried to say what fit the concept best.
I would likely recommend Paul's path, but how do you predicate a visitation?

I would suggest that one read the Bible, most likely, starting with a version simple enough for them to grasp, and with the understanding that the Book is not the Word, and the Word is what is needed. And i would point out the vital necessity of the Book in Its personal application, and caution against using It against other people, as is the common practice. I would show them the obvious symbolism in Scripture, and suggest that there is much more hidden symbolism, that can only be revealed a little at a time. I would implant that they are the Priest, building their Temple, in their heart.

I would warn them that the Book was full of apparent contradictions, and that these would teach lessons that lead to Word in the lifelong path of resolving them.rAnd that they should be alert for the smell of death in their congregation, and any condemnation or accusation should send them running. I would suggest that they seek a Right Pastor based upon their needs, and that the Spirit would guide them in their Reading, and in their choices of Pastor, etc, if they would but let Him. I would point out that if their old pastor balked at suggesting a new Right Pastor when the time was right, then they should understand the lesson in that. I would tell them about the 3 spiritual baptisms. I would suggest that they keep an open mind, and trust that they are hedged, while also strenuously avoiding anyone seeking to cloister them, to separate them from mankind like rapists do.

I would probably go on at length, like people do, and none of it would likely matter,
or at least i doubt that it would matter much, K. You cannot accept Christ with your mouth, or a bath, either.
I would tell them that mostly it seems to be about getting over yourself, and suggest ways to see how people demonstrate that they are blind to this;
people who inevitably seek leadership positions, to feed their egos.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1454436)

The drunk in the morning reference is an example of similar egotistical ways of vaunting oneself up using riddles based upon the notion that Peter was mocked as being drunk with new wine at 9:00 a.m. in the morning, and Peter said he wasn't drunk as they supposed. It's making oneself feel superior when people don't catch these things and the writer does. So it continues relentlessly.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1454460)

And the writer expects everyone to bow down to what they say as truth concerning who violated who, etc. Meanwhile the writer said more vile insults than anyone else on the forum. Forever patronizing.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1454468)

Get Word? (The Word was made flesh) So... does that mean you are following Jesus, and His Word?

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1454468)

Well, you have enunciated your position fairly clearly here, thank you for that!

I would agree with you that we must get over ourselves but further than that, we must submit ourselves to the will of the Lord Jesus. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus". Denying the flesh access to do the things it lusts after... this is part of crucifying our flesh, and being obedient, even as Jesus denied his flesh, and went to the cross. We must have that same mind as we deal with our own flesh.

And true, there are people who seek leadership positions that do so because of an ego and desire to control or manipulate others using God as their weapon of fear, but that is not to say that all who are in leadership are there because of ego and are guilty of such. That is a wide generalization to make.

Human nature tends to degenerate when placed in situations where pride can set itself up in the heart, if left unchecked. I would say no flesh is free from that.

However, the essence of the gospel needs be shared with those who are seeking, Shaz, and the gospel cannot be shared without the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and it does involve baptism in water, that is a fact that you cannot wish away, as well as spirit baptism. Christ was baptized by John, and did not begin his earthly ministry until being baptized, and filled with the Spirit, even so must we do the same. That is a missing link you did not mention, and the most important one.

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1322423)

By all means, declare publicly your desire to follow Christ, and perform the physical ritual as you understand it. But understand it.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1454468)

Why are you unwilling to acknowledge that the gospel of Jesus, the WORD made flesh, is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and likewise as he died, was buried, and rose again, so must we in acts of repentance, water baptism, and spirit baptism do the same?

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1454424)

Who needs Hagee? You can't see? You can't add? You add to the Word quickly enough, so..?

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1454469)

OK. I know that there are many various and sundry ways one can find things that seem contradictory on the surface, but there is almost always a plausible understanding. I agree it can be used as a way to set oneself up as having an intimate and vital understanding that others who are listening to you don't possess. That is not uncommon at all. I would guess perhaps we have all done it at one time or another - finding something in scripture that we think no one else has seen or understood, only to find out that we are not the only ones, there are others, lol.

But the patronizing attitude does get old, tiring to deal with.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1454436)

The drunk in the morning reference is an example of similar egotistical ways of vaunting oneself up using riddles based upon the notion that Peter was mocked as being drunk with new wine at 9:00 a.m. in the morning, and Peter said he wasn't drunk as they supposed. It's making oneself feel superior when people don't catch these things and the writer does. So it continues relentlessly.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1454510)

Just a question Mike (a bit off the subject) but haw do you get that the third hour of the day was 9:00 am? Considering that a Jewish day started a sundown to sundown.

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1454511)

6am was the first hour. When the sun came up. That's why Jesus was hanged on the cross at 9 am, the 3rd hour, and the sun went dark at noon, 6th hour, and He died the 9th hour - 3pm.

It's 3rd hour OF THE DAY. OF LIGHT.