Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

I can sense that the word of God is final authority in your life, brother. Manifest that word. Pray for me as I begin to help birth these ministeries in my city. I presented this thread as a gauge to general reaction on this topic. You see, for me it breaks my heart not to find a victorious church. I see too manu churches where sickness and disease are the norm and accepted.

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

On page 186 of Foundation Truth by Dale Yerton, copyright 1984 and on page 25 of Five-Fold Ministry and Spiritual Gifts by Lee Stoneking, copyright 2003, both books list the purposes of the 5 ministries as follows:

Apostle governs
Prophet guides
Evangelist gathers
Pastor guards
Teacher grounds

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

A lot of food for thought bro. Sam. Im going to pray for you during my evening prayer that God blesses you and equips you to use this great knowledge in greater measure.

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

some notes I had here from previous teaching

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

From Bro. Stoneking's book on the five-fold ministry:

I have to say I agree with the above. Bro Sam posted the first quote, immediately after the statement was the below statement in the next paragraph. He also said one of the reasons we don't see the sovereign move of God we long for is we don't recognize the offices above in the UPC, not officially. Everyone knows Bro. Cole was a true Apostle, Bro. Barnes a true prophet - my thought is there are men out there who would grow into true Apostles and Prophets is they knew the offices were still in effect.

Thoughts?

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

I think you are correct. The one position of Pastor has been so elevated that most feel it is th eonly position worth having. I have know numerous good evangelists who only did it long enough to get a name and find a Pastor willing to hand the church over to them. They would no doubt say that their calling was always to be the Pastor, but I think it is more that they would rather hav ethe stability and prestige of being a Pastor.

Our organizations fuel this with the fact that you cannot hold many organizational offices unless you are a Pastor. If someone loves the org and wants to advance...he has no choice but to become a Pastor even if he isn't called to it.

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

Very good work, Sam.

As a side note concerning cessationist and continuence thought, there does seem to be a wide variety among these groups.

Many "cessationists" believe miracles still occur, just not in the exact same way (in terms of frequency and function) as they did in the beginnings of the church.

Conversely, continuationists like myself have been called cessationist because we do not endorse public tongue speaking in meetings without interpretation, nor believe that its the will of God to heal every one who is sick.

Re: five fold and gifts of the spirit.
 

I respectfully disagree (not entirely but in part) with Bro. Stoneking's categorization of the offices of the ministry. And I also disagree with the preeminence placed on pastors. (apparently I'm having a contrary day)

But I do agree with the sentiment that things are not as they should be in the church today. Each of the offices should work in harmony, with overlap (as was demonstrated in Acts), and are not about the man or woman, but about the body. There is too much focus on the person or personality, and the person in the office is too fearful to allow the other offices to enter into partnership with their labors - with the work becoming the work of man instead of the work of God.