Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

So stop this silliness about the Son. Yes, the Son has always been with God. And yes... the Son was begotten in a given moment in time. Both are absolutely correct. Because we are dealing with Him who is the eternal stepping into time.

Prax, and all, God beheld your faces and loved you... before He said, "Let there be light!"

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

Sorry to flip tables guys.... but this argument is downright silly when one considers God's eternality.

When our elders said that the Son existed "in the mind of God" before time began... they didn't mean that Jesus was merely a thought, an imaginary figment in God's mind that was going to be. They meant that the Son actually EXISTED as a living reality in the mind of God (meaning from the perception of the eternal) from eternity.

We are dealing with transcendence beyond our comprehension here. A transcendence that makes the deepest of theological opinions sound like kindergarten nursery rhymes. Man knows NOTHING about God. Only the Spirit itself can search the deeper things of God, revealing them to a man. As I have walked in the Spirit I have seen how all of history exists in a single nano-second before God... and yet that nano-second is infinitely expanded before God at the same time in that past, present, and future are before Him, void of the meaning we have attached to them.

A Trinitarian sees one dimension of this and makes a claim to ultimate truth.
A Oneness believer sees one dimension of this and makes a claim to ultimate truth.

And God laughs at them both!

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

He beheld it? How does that make the Son existing with the Father? That sounds more like the Logos in the mind of God idea
God also beheld us we can say, does that make us all Eternally existing with God'?

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

All that means is God Eternally exists and transcends time. That says something about God. that does not say something about the Son's existence

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

God stood with the Son on the Mount of Transfiguration from eternity past Prax....though to us it was an event that would only one day happen in time. There is no such thing as time when dealing with the internal apsects of God's nature. God isn't bound by time as you and I perceive it.

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

Oh ye of little faith. God LIVES in every second that ever was and will be NOW. Therefore from an eternal perspective God has, and will always... exist in union with the Son.

First, God is bigger than the Logos garbage. God laughs at Logos theology too.

And yes... we are all eternally existing before God. God knew you before time began Prax... not as a seer or psychic who peers down through time to see you... but as one who existentially beholds you as a present reality before Him. As with Jeremiah... God knew him and ordained him a prophet to the nations before he was born.

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

And Prax... even as we speak... to God... YOU are seated with Christ in Heavenly places. Time is merely the revelatory unfolding of God's reality as perceived by temporal beings. To God... it's all before Him... and it's all behind Him.

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

I must agree.

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

I agree

That is why we can say God is the same yesterday, today, and forever......and since this is the case, we can also say God exists in the past, present, and future.

Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son
 

He existed but NOT as President Jesus existed NOT as Son but as God.