Originally Posted by rdp (Post 873149)

Did the woman at the well deliver a biblical sermon to believers, or simply witness about the Messiah:________?

Besides, you did not interact w/ the plain commands of I Tim. 2:11-15, or I Cor. 14:34.

Originally Posted by HRea (Post 873204)

Actually I dealt directly with the result of the ministry. Many (and I'm NOT accusing you - RDP - of this) would invalidate all that has been accomplished.

Trinitarians also have results & even miracles. Moses had results from the water that flowed from the rock, does this somehow justify their actions?

What you are missing is the concept of headship. Everywhere in the Bible that a woman is a God called preacher, her husband is mentioned.

What woman was "God called preacher" in the NT church:_________? Scripture reference pls. I would kindly affirm that YOU are the one missing headship, since "Adam was first formed, then Eve." And it's precisely this reason that Paul explicitly forbids women from the NT ministry. Not being ugly here, pls. unserstand.

In this manner, she is not usurping the authority of her husband (or father in some cases) but is ministering in his name and is covered by her man-head. This is Biblical with many scriptures supporting this.

That's what I've been waiting for now for about 3 months. Just one single Scripture supporting NT women preachers. I don't see how in the world someone can justify the doctrine w/ verses as plain as I Tim. 2.

Conversely, men should not minister in their own name either, but in Jesus' name, in order to be covered by their head.

Anytime we step outside God's perfect order (and His delegated authority to accomplish His will) there is trouble, whether man or woman.

Amen. That's precisely the reason that I take the position that I do.

So, to deal DIRECTLY with your questions...

The woman witnessed/testified to the unbelievers, this makes her an evangelist (which is, of course, part of the 5-fold ministry).

Wow! What a stretch! So every woman who tells someone else about the Messiah is now in the "5-fold ministry"?????

Interacting with your references, Biblical women preachers were covered by their husbands or fathers (Deborah, Hulda, The Prophetess (Isaiah's wife), Priscilla, Philip's daughters). This is why their "head" was specifically mentioned when they were introduced.

Originally Posted by rdp (Post 873239)

Originally Posted by HRea (Post 873266)

Wow! I can't believe you missed the point of my post so completely. And I thought surely that you, so adamant about your position, could separate the preacher from the results, according to Philippians 1:18. But you seem so intent on extending this condemnation of women preachers to those who have come to believe through their declarations. My brother, that is sad.

W/ all due respect [& I mean that sincerely], I'm really not interested in your theology, or condescions....only the text itself. Not sure how Phil. 1:18 can be used to override the plainess if I Tim. 2, but whatever!

Now, I think you're purposefully attempting to confuse the issue by using the term "preacher" to mean something other than what is Biblical. What you really mean is "pastor" or "teacher". This is a Biblical "preacher":

Before I address your verse below, allow me to point out that "Preaching" & "Teaching" are used interchangeably & synonymously in the Bible [& this precisely what Paul forbids in I Tim. 2]. See the last few verses of Acts for evidence of this, but there are sooooooooo many more references of this [just quoting from memory].

Romans 10:14-15
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

How does this invalidate, or have to do w/ I Tim. 2:11-15? Have you ever heard of the "Fallacy of Neglected Aspect"? But while you're quoting from Romans, how about quoting, "Thou that preachest......Thou that teachest...." Is this describing different, or the same idea? Of course, preaching & teaching is the same thing, & this is exactly what Paul forbids in I Tim. 2:11-15.

And, yes, the woman at the well was preaching Jesus to the men of her city and they believed.

Sure witnessing can be considered a form of preaching, but not in the sense that it's used in modern vernacular, as in a woman delivering an exposition from the Bible to a public assembly of believers. Paul forbids this in very plain language.

For scriptural reference concerning women preachers/teachers, you already know (yes, you already know) that Priscilla is an excellent example.

Actually Prisca is not an example AT ALL, of a NT woman preacher to a congregation of believers....let alone "an excellent example." Tell us, does the text state that she "preached" to believers? No!

Acts 18:26
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Now concerning the headship issue, why do you perverse this? You know very well that this is a NT Biblical principle, yet you attempt to dismiss this because it proves that there is a way a woman can preach and not be a usurper of man's authority. God, Christ, Man, Woman, Children. And that at every level, the one above covers the one below. With her husband's permission, a woman is not a usurper but is obedient to her head. How did you miss this simple NT Biblical principle?

What in the world are you talking about? Timothy W-A-S a Pastor/Apostle over others, & Paul explicitky commanded him not to allow women to "teach, or to excercise authority over a man." How much plainer can it possibly be????

Let's talk about the 5-fold ministry (Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers). Which of these do you include in your definition of "Preacher" and which ones do leave out?