Originally Posted by rdp (Post 870339)

I see, the "nicest lady I will meet" scornfully refers to me as "Bible expert" in total derisiveness????? Not hardly.

Yep, I'll keep on believing the plain words of the great apostle Paul! Hopefully someday you'll do the same & get honest w/ the text of I Tim. 2, which is not contextually dealing w/ "reaching the lost"....for about the 11th time now!!

Sheesh................

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 871546)

Possible Origins for Prostatis as “Helper”

Where then did the word ‘helper” originate? One possible origin for “helper” for prostatis is from the “far inferior reading” in F and G.[14] F and G are ninth century manuscripts, penned centuries after the original reading. Horsley reasons that these readings might have originated “presumably in recognition of the discomfort which prostatis caused.”[15]

The Vulgate is another possibility, particularly the word adstitit in the reading “ipsa quoque adstitit multis et mihi ipsi” or “she herself has assisted many, and myself.” Obviously, those who translated the Greek into the Latin of the Vulgate chose an inaccurate rendering of the Greek prostatis (literally “to stand before or stand at the head of”) as adstitit (lit. “to stand near or at one’s side”), thus confusing a leadership role with one of proximity.


Another possible origin for “helper” might have occurred when Walter Bauer’s Greek-German Dictionary of the Writings of the New Testament and Remaining Christian Literature was “translated” into English. In his lexicon, the word “helper” did not appear as a definition for prostatis, but only “Beschützerin” (defender or protector) and “Patronin” (patron).” When his work was translated into the English by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich in the BAG, the word “helper” as a translation for prostatis came into existence. A similar occurrence took place in Gingrich’s Shorter Lexicon of the Greek New Testament: while the word “protector” and “patron” appear as suitable meanings for prostatis, Phoebe can be described only as a “helper,” with the supporting evidence limited to Rom 16:2.

Another possibility as to why “helper” was chosen in English translation is the outdated information provided in The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament (1930), which states that “we can supply no instance of the fem. prostatis” as given in Rom 16:2 “from our sources” as “protectress” or “patroness.”[16] Because this work has not been updated, one must look at other avenues to reconcile the definition of prostatis. However, the consequences of Moulton’s and Miligan’s work has been felt for years, likely giving way to the fallacy that the masculine term prostatēs is not equivalent in meaning to prostatis, despite the fact it can be argued that the feminine form prostatis is “to be equated with the masculine form [prostatēs]” through epigraphical evidence.[17]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 871573)

GO ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature is also God breathed scripture....You fail to see that...ad where is your knowledge about culture and why Paul quoted something that had been written to him...

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 871576)

John 14:15, Jesus stated:

“If ye love me, keep my commandments"

If thedisciples theought like some people they would have never recieved the word of a woman that Christ had risen...BUT HE sent them to tell the brothers...

A lot of men would ave never fought with Deborah...but God cursed those that did not come to the aid of the Lord....helping Deborah was helping the Lord...

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 871664)

Jesus gave Mary an assignment, “Go to my brothers.”
She is to return to tell the disciples what she has seen and
heard. This woman is the first witness to the Resurrection, the
first one to carry the news to others. The doctrine that is at the heart
of Christianity was first proclaimed by a woman!

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 871671)

Given the lowly status of women in Jesus' day, it is surely ironic that the first Christian preachers of the Resurrection were not men, but women!

Here we go again! "The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch." Where in the world do you get that Mary was a "Christian preacher"??????????????????????????? It sure isn't found in the text of God's Word.

It was to the women who had come to the tomb early on that historic first day of the week that the angels first appeared. it was these women who first heard the good news, "Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said" (Matthew 28:5-6). It was to these same women that the first expression of the Great Commission was given: "Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead: "Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead" (28:7, NASB). The disciples responded with disbelief at first and wrote the Resurrection Proclamation off as "an idle tale" (Luke 24:11). Not so the women: they no only believed without doubting but immediately began to broadcast the good news of Christ alive (Matthew 28:8). Three of the Gospels specifically mention that Jesus appeared, first of all, to women.

Since it would have been just as easy for the divine messengers to announce Christ's resurrection to the male disciples, huddled behind locked doors. We can only conclude that these post-Resurrection events, which focus so pointedly upon women, were by divine ordination
(a woman's place)