Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Well.... those were copied with the name of author....however evidence is all the same...the Roman Catholic church tampered with lots of things...baptism, women in ministry....and hundreds of other things....

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

notice what encyclopedias and histroy say about baptism....



The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263, says, "The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."

Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, 1963, page 1015, says, "The Trinity... is not demonstrable by logic or by Scriptural proofs,...The term Trias was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (c AD 180), ...(The term Trinity) is not found in Scripture."

The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, 275, says, "It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but...a later liturgical addition."

In "A Collection of Evidence Against the Traditional Wording of Matthew 28:19," Clinton D. Willis quotes from The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics to expose how Matthew 28:19 "...is the central piece of evidence for the traditional (Trinitarian) view. If it were undisputed, this would, of course, be decisive, but its trustworthiness is impugned on grounds of textual criticism, literary criticism and historical criticism." "The obvious explanation of the silence of the New Testament on the triune name, and the use of another [Jesus' name baptismal] formula in Acts and Paul, is that this other formula was the earlier, and the triune formula is a later addition."

Edmund Schlink, in "The Doctrine of Baptism," page 28, says, "The baptismal command in its Matthew 28:19 form cannot be the historical origin of Christian baptism. At the very least, it must be assumed that the text has been transmitted in a form expanded by the [Catholic] church."

Wilhelm Bousset, in "Kyrios Christianity," page 295, says, "The testimony for the wide distribution of the simple baptismal formula [in the Name of Jesus] down into the second century is so overwhelming that even in Matthew 28:19, the Trinitarian formula was later inserted."

It is too conspicuous that once the Roman Catholic Church succeeded at supplanting Jesus' name baptism and institutionalized the false Trinitarian doctrine, (and thus effectively silenced the truth that the Father God was in Christ), the Roman Empire stopped fighting the church and began embracing it.

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

History Note: In 313 A.D., by the Edict of Milan, the Roman Emperor Constantine legalized Christanity).

In the years that followed, large churches were built in the major cities of the Empire and many men found a vocation in this new religion desirable.

The smaller house churches, as the founders died, were replaced by the larger churches subsidized by the state.

And as time went by, women were not allowed to have any official positions in any church. One way this was accomplished was by Church Council Ordinances:

Council of Orange(A.D.441)-Canon 26

“Let no one proceed to the ordination of Deaconesses anymore."

Council of Epaon(A.D.517)-Canon 21

“We abrogate completely in the entire Kingdom the consecration of widows who are named Deaconesses.”

Council of Orleans(A.D.533)

“No longer shall the blessing of women deaconesses be given, because of the weakness of their sex.” (The above information on Church Councils is from the book, Fore-Mothers:Women of the Bible by Janice Nunnally-Cox)

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

The Council of Orange
Dear readers, we will now start our discussion of canons and comments on church practices. We have seen from a few inscriptions that, although the evidence is scarce, women did serve as deacons and deaconesses.

Now, however, we are going to examine church councils and their attempts to stop the advancements of women in the early church. Our beginning council to start will be the Council of Orange. We are given the following information about the council by Madigan & Osiek:

“The Council of Orange was convoked in November 441…with seventeen bishops from three provinces in attendance, it produced thirty canons on a wide variety of matters. SEVERAL OF THESE deal with the STATUS AND CONDUCT OF WOMEN IN CONSECRATED OFFICE. For example, one decreed that widows should make a profession of chastity and wear the proper dress…finally, Canon 26 deals with deaconess, in particular the question of whether they should be ordained” (“Ordained Women in the Early Church: A Documentary History,” page 145).

We are now gonna look at Council of Orange Canon 26:

“Female deacons (Diaconae) are BY NO MEANS (omnimodis) TO BE ORDAINED (ordinandae). If there are any WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN ORDAINED (si quae iam sunt), let them submit their heads to the benediction (benediction…capita submittant) that is granted to the laity (quae populo impenditur).”

Notice that the council seems to be adamantly against women’s ordination: “female deacons are by no means to be ordained.” This says that women are not to be ordained for any reason whatsoever. Then, the canon presupposes some women have been ordained: “If there are any who have already been ordained…” The fact that the Council of Orange presupposes a thing tells us that women’s ordination did exist even as late as the fifth century. Last but not least, the “ordained” women are to be placed among the masses: “let them submit their heads to the benediction that is granted to the laity.” Here we find that these women were to be demoted, pulled down, from their places of ordained authority.

Madigan and Osiek write regarding Canon 26:

“It seems quite likely that the forbidden practice [ordaining women] had been occurring in the early fifth century in Gaul. That would account both for the canon having been promulgated at all and for its force…the recommendation to receive the blessing given to the laity is thus intended as a ritual act intended to UNDO THEIR [deaconesses] ELEVATION TO THE CLERGY AND TO RESITUATE THEM WITH THE PEOPLE, where they belong” (145, 146).

Although this canon tells us of the ordaining of women in Gaul, it suggests a bigger problem than just that of the council’s disagreement with a certain church practice:

“The forbidding of ordinations in this Western province is of special interest because it is unambiguously clear from several sources that, in the East, female deacons WERE BEING ORDAINED PUBLICLY AT THE SAME TIME BY IMPOSITION OF HANDS AND PRAYER OF THE BISHOP and using prayers similar to those used in other sorts of ordinations. In other words, in the East female deacons were considered wholly part of the clergy in the fifth century—probably the very understanding the fathers at Orange were at pains to avert in the West” (146).

The practice of ordaining women was making its way from the East, and this likely would have terrified the Council to write to the churches to stop this practice. The fact that the Council responded this way tells us that women’s ordination was a real thing in the West (and the East).

Funny, but, isn’t this different from what we’ve ALWAYS heard about women’s ordination? Isn’t it amazing that it’s been called a “liberal” practice, a “work of the feminists,” but, yet, it was also a practice of the early church? Most of you, my readers, have probably never even read of something like this before. It seems that conservative Christians are not very aware of their church history; for, if they were, they wouldn’t make such claims about the practice of ordaining women. The fact that conservative Christians know very little of this information does not mean that it does not exist, or that Madigan’s and Osiek’s information is wrong—rather, it demonstrates an attempt to suppress the information.
(MEN AND WOMEN INTHE CHURCH)

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Beware...beware lest we fall into romes dark steps...sometimes without knowing it...

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

One translation of Psalm 68:11, a prophetic song of victory, indicates that there will be a large "company" of women who will proclaim, or preach, God's word after he makes an announcement. We do know that women joined the male disciples in the upper room in the ten days between when Jesus ascended into Heaven and when the wind and the tongues of fire initiated the first street preaching in Jerusalem. We also know that women were among the people who were commanded by Jesus in Mark 16:15 to go into all the world and "preach the Gospel."

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Who would say "Nay--O Woman, keep to thyself thy message and let the heathen perish"?

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

Re: Can Women Pastor ?
 

God is the one who inspired I Tim. 2:11-15 & I Cor. 14:34...try again!

Re: Can Women Pastor ?