Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Prior to being born again, I became convicted of my sinful condition and my need for Jesus Christ to pardon my sins. I repented, determining to stop doing anything I knew to be contrary to the will of God, and to start doing the will of God. I determined that whenever I learned the will of God in some specific area, I would do it.

One of the very first things I did was repent of the occultism and paganism I had been involved in. Halloween was right there at the top of the list, along with Beltane. At the time I was not really aware of the Christmas traditions being pagan in origin.

Shortly after I repented, I was filled with the Holy Ghost and was baptised in the name of the Lord. I went through a brief season where I was not plugged into a local assembly, and therefore had no teaching other than my own reading of the Bible. I got married. Shortly after I got married we began going to church, my wife got the Holy Ghost and was baptised in the Name of the Lord. She too had a repentance much like mine (although she had not been involved in occultic paganism as I had).

Together, we studied the bible, went to church, prayed, etc, seeking to learn the will of God for our lives. We learned many things over a period of time. We had to adjust our living, behaviour, actions, attitudes, and beliefs, bringing them more and more in line with the Word.

That included an examination of traditions like Christmas, etc. From the beginning we both had out doubts about Christmas. We wondered why if Jesus is the reason there was really only a token remembrance of Him made at Christmas? When the majority of what everyone was into involved trees, decorating, and gifts, Santa, ho ho ho, elves and reindeer, etc?

Then we discovered Jeremiah 10/

And that was like a bolt of lightning. We understood then that Christmas was nothing less than an amalgamation of several ancient pagan idolatrous traditions and rites that had been given a Christian veneer in order to make it palatable to Christians. We searched out the history of it. And we determined to repent of participating in it.

So we stopped.

And all hell broke loose with families and friends. :)

We were seeking to live by the Bible. So we dropped, along the way, a lot of things that other Christians considered "near essential christian practices". The Lord leads His people out of bondage to idolatry, false religious, erroneous doctrines and practices, and such like things. He leads His people into all truth - as long as they are willing to follow.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

It's amazing God didn't just let me die as a practicing satanist. I cannot even wrap my mind around it, after over 25 years since He irresistibly called me to His Kingdom. I truly do not "deserve" any of His blessings.

I have condemned nobody. The BIBLE declares that those who practice heathenism must repent, or perish. The BIBLE declares that CHRISTIANS CANNOT have it both ways. Paul never stated "what is sin to some is not sin to others."

He stated whatever is without faith is sin. And faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. There is no FAITH that is not produced by the Word of God. Any belief not sourced from the Word of God, any "faith" not in accordance with the Word of God, is not faith - it is deception.

We cannot determine if we are "in the will of God or not" except by going to the Bible. That's why He gave us a Bible, an authoritative record of the revealed will of God. So we must check ourselves to see if we are going by the Book, or not.

Paul told us to examine ourselves, to see if we are in fact in the faith. How do we do that? How can we know if Jesus Christ is in us, truly?

John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (22) Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? (23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (24) He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Here are the facts:

Christmas is wholly a pagan holy day in celebration of Saturn. Saturn was a Roman personification of Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god, who was also the god of the Sun. Mithra (known in Rome as Sol Invictus, the Invincible Sun) is the Persian version of Baal. The Winter Solstice was the time of the "birth of the Sun God", celebrated anywhere from around December 20-January 5 or thereabouts. Eventually, December 25th was settled on. The holy day was simply part of a week or so long festive season (hence the whole "twelve days of Christmas").

Christmas is an ancient holy day of the Baal religion. It is part of Sun worship, the worship of the Sun god. (Yes, that's why you go to church every single SUN day, the Dies Soli, the Day of the Sun, which was also a major holy day in ancient Canaan in honour of Baal.)

"But, we practice the rites of Baal, Mithra, and Saturn in honour of Jesus! It's all about Jesus!"

But what does the BIBLE say?

Deuteronomy 12:30-32 KJV (30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

It is expressly forbidden to worship God using pagan rites and customs!

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God

Thou shalt not do SO - meaning "in that manner". What manner? Enquiring after the pagan religious customs, as to how they worshipped their demon gods.

Thou shalt not do so UNTO THE LORD - you shall NOT take pagan religious customs and ADAPT THEM TO THE WORSHIP OF THE TRUE GOD. It is EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. Repurposing pagan holy days, and ceremonies, to the worship of God, is SIN.

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

God has ordained the worship He wants us to give Him. It is in the Bible. We are not allowed to "add" or "take away" from the worship He has ordained. If you think you can take pagan religious practices and offer them to God, if you think He accepts such vain will-worship, YOU ARE MISTAKEN. It is ABOMINABLE to God. He literally HATES it.

"Oh, but God hears all my prayers, even though I'm steeped in pagan traditions!"

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV (11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God will make sure you believe lies and are damned, if you reject the truth of His Word.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Exodus 31:13 KJV Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 13:6-10 KJV Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. (7) Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. (8) And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. (9) And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. (10) Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.

Holy Days and religious festivals are a sign, or token, of which god you really worship. If you are keeping the holy days of ancient pagan demons, THAT'S WHO YOU ARE WORSHIPPING. If you have been baptised into Christ, and yet you keep the holy days of satan, you are committing SPIRITUAL FORNICATION, HARLOTRY, and ADULTERY against your Saviour.

The Sabbaths of God were to be FOR A SIGN "upon the hand and ... between the eyes" (forehead) of God's people. It was a mark of ownership, covenant, fealty, loyalty, and belonging.

What do you think the following verses are referring to?

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-11 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The beast institutes false worship among the nations, and causes them to be marked in the hand and the forehead. John is seeing in vision a spiritual reality concerning the world and its inhabitants. Just as God has a "mark" on His people, in their foreheads and their hands, so does the beast, satan's earthly power and influence. Just as God's mark includes His Holy Sabbaths, the beast's mark includes his "holy days". Holy days, or religious festivals, repeating observances of set times, observed in commemoration of religious ideas and concepts, intended to pass on religious ideas from one generation to the next, are part of the MARK, either of God... or of satan.

Which one do YOU have?

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

1 Corinthians 10:18-22 KJV (18) Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? (19) What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? (20) But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

The apostle declared that participating in religious customs puts you in fellowship with the GOD SERVED BY THOSE RITES. The heathen customs are DEMONIC. Participation in heathen religious customs puts you in fellowship with DEMONS. Christians CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You cannot partake both of the Lord's table, and the table of demons. to put it simply, if you partake of the table of demons, you are cut off from the Lord's table. You cut off your fellowship with Christ.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Wait. Did you stop celebrating Christmas AFTER you got saved?

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

I grew up as a kid celbrating Christmas. For me it was all about Santa and presents. By the time I was a teenager I was a satanist and could care less about Christmas. Did the obligatory big family get together thing once a year, free food (like Turkey Day), would get my mom and brother something, but it was still just a Santa and presents thing. My stepdad's family would do some kind of Jesus-oriented thing (one year they had a handout explaining how the candy cane represents the bloody stripes of Jesus). And of course I knew everyone believed Christmas was when Jesus was born (nativity scenes, etc).

When I became a Christian, for the first year or so I was kind of on the "let's put Christ back into Christmas" kick. I didn't like all the commercialism, Santa, etc. Something was wrong with Christmas, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Then I read Jeremiah 10. And that was the fatal blow. I could clearly see it. I remember later that year at the inlaws' for Christmas. I didn't want to go. My wife didn't want to go. But newly married, parental pressures, etc.... So we went. We suffered the whole time, we were miserable. I watched the tree go up (we refused to participate in decorating the tree), watched the presents put under it, the lights turned on... I felt like I was at a temple of Moloch bringing my kids to the heathen idol to be devoured. Conviction is a wonderful thing, it is perfectly designed to produce a change in behaviour. lol

After that we decided we couldn't do that anymore. We informed both sets of inlaws we would not be doing the Christmas thing. And yes we told them why. Went over like a lead zeppelin. :heeheehee

For the next several years, my wife's parents would try to literally force us to celebrate Christmas. Her mother's birthday was right before Christmas day. "Ok, no Christmas, but surely you will come see me on my birthday?" Okay, that's fine.

On arrival, there's the tree, the presents, the whole nine yards. Tried to act like we had never said anything about Christmas. Really irritating. We honoured her on her birthday. But I think we refused to accept the presents? I can't remember, it's been a long time. I DO remember it was very tense. VERY tense.

Eventually they got over it and realised we weren't going to budge. We told them we will visit for my wife's mom's birthday, but if there's any Christmas stuff involved we would leave and not make the same mistake again. They left us alone about it.

Prior to becoming a Christian I did not know about all the background of Christmas. I knew that winter solstice was a pagan holy day (I was a pagan, after all) but I always thought Christmas was a Christian "alternative" put in place in competition with the pagan day (especially since they weren't actually on the same exact day). I figured Christians were all about money to begin with so that's why Jesus was born on the day that everyone blows their money playing Santa Claus. lol

Since becoming a Christian, I have learned a lot of things, and changed a lot of things. Or, actually, GOD has changed a lot of things in my life. And guess what? He's still working on me!

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

Never mind. I saw your answer. So, you got saved but was lost immediately? You stated that you would have been lost had you died while still partaking of Christmas.

..Jeremiah 10 describes carved idols. Not Christmas trees.

Re: Christmas is pagan
 

I have tried to explain this many times in many threads for many years. There is a whole mentality or way of looking at things that I don't have a term for (yet), that leads people to think in the terms like you just posted. "You got saved but were lost immediately" implies that salvation is a ticket-punching thing, that might be revoked immediately upon some condition or action by the card holder.

This approach is unbiblical, although it seems to be VERY common. Salvation is not something you get in the same sense as when you get a ticket to the Cayman Islands.

Salvation is a lot of things. We were saved 2000 years ago. We were saved when we put our faith in Christ. We are being saved even now (moment by moment), and we WILL BE saved in the future. Salvation is a past event, a present reality, a present process, and a future event, all in one.

Suppose a person becomes a Christian, but they were never told by the evangelist that they were in fornication with their girlfriend. (It seems self evident to you and me, but talk to a 20-something these days and believe me it's NOT self evident to THEM.) So, suppose they repent, and give their life to Jesus. And go home to their girlfriend. Then, a couple months later they hear the truth, that they can't just be shacked up with someone, because that's fornication, and NO FORNICATOR HAS ETERNAL LIFE.

So what do they do? Suppose they repent. They break off the relationship with the girlfriend. Maybe they make arrangements and get married. Whatever. But the shacking up business ends.

"Wait, you got saved and then were immediately lost until you broke off the fornication?"

Yes, and no.

See, the discovery of Truth (in this case, that being shacked up is fornication, and unlawful, and sinful, and soul-damning) was part of God saving them, part of that "process of being saved" in the here and now present life.

Have you EVER discovered something AFTER you first became a Christian, that required you to repent and change your ways, something you were doing that you DID NOT KNOW was error? And upon discovering the truth, you changed your ways? Were you "lost" while in error?

If not, then why the need to repent? If you were not in danger, then you could just continue doing whatever it was, God doesn't care, right?

If you were, then did you get rebaptised all over again? Why not?

See, this whole line of thinking of salvation as a ticket-to-heaven that you get handed to you upon conversion messes things up.

Salvation is being delivered from all the errors of the world, the flesh, and the devil, and being conformed to the image of Christ. To suggest that one can persist in error after conversion with no fear of being lost is silly (and dangerous). But if persisting in error is fatal to the soul, even of a "Christian", then we must admit that Christians do indeed grow in the knowledge of God, and through a process of time discover that some of the things they do - even after conversion - are NOT OF GOD, and need to be repented of.

So, once confronted with the truth about something like that, the Test comes into play - will you follow the Spirit? Or the flesh, the world, or something other than Christ? If a person chooses to persist in error, well, how can it be said they are saved? If a person follows the Spirit, Who leads them into all truth (God's word is truth), then are they not a child of God?

"As many as are led by the Spirit, they are the children of God."