Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

:blah:blah:blah

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

Hey, I thought you had 4 births...get your story straight...LOL

BTW...I cant believe I am arguing with a frog....ribbitt...LOL

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

I figured I'd start establishing 3 and after I've done that the 4th will slide right in place.

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

Hmmm...so what makes you better than everyone else? :smack

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

verse 8 is explaining the "born of Spirit" in vs 5.

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

Prax, you can just smell the bias in his position. The word "except" is used in the passage 2 times. Verse 5 for both water and Spirit, meaning "unless", which makes Spirit optional. But the water part in their mind is NOT optional.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except(unless, optional) a man be born again(optional), he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except(unless, optional) a man be born of water(optional) and of the Spirit(optional)..(the clarification of BORN AGAIN above, ), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.




Using ambiotic fluid to replace water baptism in this passage is absolutely ridiculous....LOL


I guess those that are born of a C- section cannot be saved, because they are not born of the water...LOL

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

"Unless" does not mean optional

"Unless" actually EXCLUDES something from being optional

The word is a conditional (we learned about that in math)

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

The only "option" that I see in John 3:3-7 is be to born AGAIN or not see or enter the Kingdom. That's really not much of an "option" to me.

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

Prax, you are typically a level headed individual. So hear me out.

1. We know that Jesus was talking to nicodemus about a 2nd birth.

2. In John 3:8 Jesus speaks of a birth which occurs without water; "born of spirit"

3. If the 2nd birth that jesus was talking to nicodemus about included both a water and spirit portion then it makes little sense to call those born who only have the spirit portion. Yet that's exactly what Jesus called them. Ya see what I'm saying?

Re: Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully
 

Except is the word that I was referring to as "optional".(except a man is born of water.....).... optional....(except a man is born of the Spirit).....optional. Optional(Except) means... "this is your option whether or not you want to be born again" to enter into the kingdom........

An example of a common use of the word except...." If you choose to be born again I will let you into the Kingdom of God....that is the "exception" I will make for you"


"Unless" was only a synonym I used to help describe the word,"except".


You may have missed the point I made, that these guys say that being born of water is NOT optional.....everyone from birth is born of water. Then all they need is the Spirit birth. Which is their option to be saved or not.(they dont automatically have it(Spirit from birth).....hope that clarifies.