entire stoneking message

[Dedicated Mind]

here is the entire stoneking message when he testifies about bin laden wives. the bin laden testimony is in clips 8, 9 and 10 but i enjoyed the entire message. posted by dan from jack daniel on facebook.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0BylaAjhYfj6XVzNIM3dhd0Y3bVU/edit

[Timmy]

here is the entire stoneking message when he testifies about bin laden wives. the bin laden testimony is in clips 8, 9 and 10 but i enjoyed the entire message.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0BylaAjhYfj6XVzNIM3dhd0Y3bVU/edit

You'd think a man with his education would know better than to..... Oh. Wait. Never mind! :lol

[acerrak]

here is the entire stoneking message when he testifies about bin laden wives. the bin laden testimony is in clips 8, 9 and 10 but i enjoyed the entire message. posted by dan from jack daniel on facebook.

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0BylaAjhYfj6XVzNIM3dhd0Y3bVU/edit

do you agree with what he said about bin laden wives? i mean if its a lie did you enjoy the part of him lying about their conversion?

[Dedicated Mind]

does anyone know a young man named russell who stoneking claims to be a prophet in one of the clips?

[Dedicated Mind]

do you agree with what he said about bin laden wives? i mean if its a lie did you enjoy the part of him lying about their conversion?
i thought the sermon was uplifting and inspirational. how do you know it is a lie? i will take it at face value until proven otherwise. cp thomas is on facebook, maybe someone could message him?

[Dedicated Mind]

i invited c.p. thomas to this forum on facebook.

[acerrak]

i thought the sermon was uplifting and inspirational. how do you know it is a lie? i will take it at face value until proven otherwise. cp thomas is on facebook, maybe someone could message him?

the man lost all credability with me when he started preaching and putting the blame of a woman being raped on the women.. plus the holy magic hair doctrine ... the man to me isnt annointed and while some times he can speak encouragment you must admit he would be better off to stick to the word instead of bringing in lies. the fact is many things that come from him are well, lets just say. off...

this is one band wagon i was glad to get off from.

[Aquila]

i thought the sermon was uplifting and inspirational. how do you know it is a lie? i will take it at face value until proven otherwise. cp thomas is on facebook, maybe someone could message him?


Aparently Osama bin Laden had three wives who were interrogated and one that was wounded during the raid.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/osama-bin-laden-wives-interrogations_n_1544897.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-ladens-wife-wounded-raid/story?id=13521534

This is consistant with the strict form of Islam Osama bin Landen practiced... which limits Islamic males to only four wives.

Either Rev. Stoneking ignorantly fell for an email hoax... or he presented what he knew was fraudulent (or knew could be fraudulent) information to his congregation for hype.

[RandyWayne]

OK, I have listened to entire messages by LS (out of morbid fascination) before but I may not be able to finish this one. The stories and self-aggrandizing are worse than ever and absolutely sickening. Of course the iSheep listening and encouraging him are just plain sad.

[RandyWayne]

....and now "8 people got the baptism of the holy ghost at a Cracker barrel!"

[houston]

OK, I have listened to entire messages by LS (out of morbid fascination) before but I may not be able to finish this one. The stories and self-aggrandizing are worse than ever and absolutely sickening. Of course the iSheep listening and encouraging him are just plain sad.

Take one for the team.

[RandyWayne]

Take one for the team.

Sorry, can't take one for the team this time. Had to stop listening. I believe Monty Python has more philosophically relevant lessens in their comedy sketches than LS has in his messages.

[Dedicated Mind]

OK, I have listened to entire messages by LS (out of morbid fascination) before but I may not be able to finish this one. The stories and self-aggrandizing are worse than ever and absolutely sickening. Of course the iSheep listening and encouraging him are just plain sad.
randy, how did you like the, "it rained in masada for the first time because I was there?" unbelievable

[jediwill83]

@Randy...."You're a loony" lol

[RandyWayne]

randy, how did you like the, "it rained in masada for the first time because I was there?" unbelievable

I didn't even make it that far but I believe he would say something like that considering all the "whoppers" he had been telling to that point. After all, Europe was in revival because of HIS (LS'ings) recent visit there.......

Of all the stories worth of Paul Bunyan and Blue the one that really bothered me was the story of the youth group going to the Cracker Barrel restaurant after a particularly "Holy Ghost Filled!" service. It was crowded and they started praying for people and "8 were filled with the Holy Ghost!". In reality they had a typical LS emotion filled service and went out to eat after wards and proceeded to make fools of themselves annoying all the other customers in the process -and most likely left no tip afterwards since they figured the Holy Ghost was tip enough (just added that myself. I have no idea if they left one or not). LOL

[Timmy]

A photo on his biggest fan's web site. :heeheehee

http://www.leestoneking.com/images/Itinerary/2003/ABI%20%2703/Me%20without%20ABI%20Logo.jpg

[RandyWayne]

A photo on his biggest fan's web site. :heeheehee


But this may very well be how LS see's himself.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/RandyWayneD/Jokes/StoneColdLeeStoneking-1.jpg

[aegsm76]

All, the Cracker Barrel revival really did happen.
I know some of the individuals involved.
There used to be pictures on someone's facebook account that I knew.
I will see if I can dig them up.

The Bin Laden wives tale, not so much.

[RandyWayne]

I have no doubt that the people involved in the "Cracker Barrel Revival" think it really happened, but I have also seen people drunk out of their gourd after bar closing time who went out to eat -and actually thought they were being funny when they gave the waitress a hard time at the local Perkins.

[acerrak]

Take one for the team.

Put me in Coach im ready

http://extra.listverse.com/amazon/comedy/ace-ventura04.jpg

[Aquila]

....there are wolves....

[houston]

randy, how did you like the, "it rained in masada for the first time because I was there?" unbelievable

ROFLOL!!! That's insane.

[houston]

Sorry, can't take one for the team this time. Had to stop listening. I believe Monty Python has more philosophically relevant lessens in their comedy sketches than LS has in his messages.

Take some poppers.... won't feel a thing.

[houston]

I didn't even make it that far but I believe he would say something like that considering all the "whoppers" he had been telling to that point. After all, Europe was in revival because of HIS (LS'ings) recent visit there.......

Of all the stories worth of Paul Bunyan and Blue the one that really bothered me was the story of the youth group going to the Cracker Barrel restaurant after a particularly "Holy Ghost Filled!" service. It was crowded and they started praying for people and "8 were filled with the Holy Ghost!". In reality they had a typical LS emotion filled service and went out to eat after wards and proceeded to make fools of themselves annoying all the other customers in the process -and most likely left no tip afterwards since they figured the Holy Ghost was tip enough (just added that myself. I have no idea if they left one or not). LOL

He mentioned they were in Tennessee. It may be the same outpouring that was broadcast all over Facebook and mentioned on AFF.

[RandyWayne]

He mentioned they were in Tennessee. It may be the same outpouring that was broadcast all over Facebook and mentioned on AFF.

Heaven forbid that there was an outpouring that LS wasn't involved in.

[CC1]

Aparently Osama bin Laden had three wives who were interrogated and one that was wounded during the raid.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/osama-bin-laden-wives-interrogations_n_1544897.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-ladens-wife-wounded-raid/story?id=13521534

This is consistant with the strict form of Islam Osama bin Landen practiced... which limits Islamic males to only four wives.

Either Rev. Stoneking ignorantly fell for an email hoax... or he presented what he knew was fraudulent (or knew could be fraudulent) information to his congregation for hype.

So are you actually saying that everything on the internet and in emails is not true?????? LOL

[CC1]

i thought the sermon was uplifting and inspirational. how do you know it is a lie? i will take it at face value until proven otherwise. cp thomas is on facebook, maybe someone could message him?

I will be praying for you!

By the way when you read Gimm's Fairy tales do you take them at face value? Just curious!:heeheehee

[houston]

I will be praying for you!

By the way when you read Gimm's Fairy tales do you take them at face value? Just curious!:heeheehee

No. But I no longer use the O.T.

[Praxeas]

I googled for Osama's 40 wives and found nothing

[CC1]

I googled for Osama's 40 wives and found nothing

I did the same thing the other day when LS's statement was first posted and also got nothing!

[CC1]

For many years I thought the only main things that seperated me from my religious roots in the UPC was the stance on legalism and what constitutes salvation.

It was within the last ten years that the promotion of the ministries of Ruth Reider - Harvey and Lee Stoneking made me realize the gulf is a lot bigger than that.

I have been astounded that any group that wants to be taken seriously would not only allow these ministries to survive but help them flourish by promoting them within the fellowship.

Forget the doctrinal debate of Oneness vs trinitarianism for a minute. This detour into mysticism and fables takes away the credability you need to even get to that debate.

These type ministries have always been in old time Pentecost but were the fringe elements and not mainstream until the last 10 years or so.

Now the UPC embraces the same type thing we have always made fun of in the Charismatic world. Next I guess we will have some major UPC ministry claiming gold dust is falling in their meetings.

[Timmy]

I googled for Osama's 40 wives and found nothing

Well duh. They didn't have internet in that cave! :lol

[aegsm76]

Well duh. They didn't have internet in that cave! :lol

Now that's funny!
:happydance

[HolyFire]

....and now "8 people got the baptism of the holy ghost at a Cracker barrel!"

There's a video of that! Youtube it.

[Justin]

the man lost all credability with me when he started preaching and putting the blame of a woman being raped on the women.. plus the holy magic hair doctrine ... the man to me isnt annointed and while some times he can speak encouragment you must admit he would be better off to stick to the word instead of bringing in lies. the fact is many things that come from him are well, lets just say. off...

this is one band wagon i was glad to get off from.


acerrak,

Do you have audio of this?

[RandyWayne]

There's a video of that! Youtube it.

Do you have a link?

[RandyWayne]

acerrak,

Do you have audio of this?

That was the claim that RRH made. LS could have said it as well, but haven't heard him.

[acerrak]

acerrak,

Do you have audio of this?

it was one of his preachings he did while in australia. i use to have the audio but since i have gotten a different comp i got rid of his stuff, but im sure the audio is around. its not the first time this has been discussed on the forums nor by myself.

im at work now maybe later i can find it but that would cause much pain cause i would have to sift through his tracks and preaching......

[HolyFire]

For many years I thought the only main things that seperated me from my religious roots in the UPC was the stance on legalism and what constitutes salvation.

It was within the last ten years that the promotion of the ministries of Ruth Reider - Harvey and Lee Stoneking made me realize the gulf is a lot bigger than that.

I have been astounded that any group that wants to be taken seriously would not only allow these ministries to survive but help them flourish by promoting them within the fellowship.

Forget the doctrinal debate of Oneness vs trinitarianism for a minute. This detour into mysticism and fables takes away the credability you need to even get to that debate.

These type ministries have always been in old time Pentecost but were the fringe elements and not mainstream until the last 10 years or so.

Now the UPC embraces the same type thing we have always made fun of in the Charismatic world. Next I guess we will have some major UPC ministry claiming gold dust is falling in their meetings.

If that's where you think the UPC is heading I won't mention Bro. Barnes, Bro. Bean or what transpired in Bro. Cole's ministry - oh, why not. One evening he asked God to stop the monsoon so people could make it to a Holy Ghost Crusade in the Phillipines. God did it. When rally started, he prayed again, only asking that it would ran. It rained.

Aquila, as far as Bin Laden being a staunch strict Muslim, there was porn and Viagra in his compound room. Bin Laden never strapped a bomb to himself.

If Bro. Stoneking lied, God will openly rebuke him if he refuses to repent. IF he lied. I'll err on Bro Stoneking's side for now.

Where Bro Stoneking said a woman who was raped was at fault, what message? When?

[Barb]

For many years I thought the only main things that seperated me from my religious roots in the UPC was the stance on legalism and what constitutes salvation.

It was within the last ten years that the promotion of the ministries of Ruth Reider - Harvey and Lee Stoneking made me realize the gulf is a lot bigger than that.

I have been astounded that any group that wants to be taken seriously would not only allow these ministries to survive but help them flourish by promoting them within the fellowship.

Forget the doctrinal debate of Oneness vs trinitarianism for a minute. This detour into mysticism and fables takes away the credability you need to even get to that debate.

These type ministries have always been in old time Pentecost but were the fringe elements and not mainstream until the last 10 years or so.

Now the UPC embraces the same type thing we have always made fun of in the Charismatic world. Next I guess we will have some major UPC ministry claiming gold dust is falling in their meetings.
Though you and I remain miles apart in many respects, I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this excellent post. I was discussing this very thing with one of my brothers this morning, and I called it, "small-man mentality."

Apostolic Pentecostals in general, not UPCI exclusively, have this mentality, and have for years.

It's the thinking that in order or to make myself seem more important or relevant I must add to the written Word, or say that some celebrity or whoever is "looking our way."

Either we believe what we say we believe or we don't. What we teach is biblical truth or it isn't, and it's just that simple.

I don't need to hear an off the wall claim of a Jewish revival or that the wives of a terrorist were all baptized to cement my belief in Jesus Name baptism.

Furthermore, I don't need to see a pic or video of someone waving their hair over an offering basket to keep me from cutting my hair.

I don't want to hear about how someone laid their hair on someone and they were healed. If I want sensationalism, I can watch a movie. My purpose in listening to a man or woman preach or teach behind a pulpit is in hearing the WORD of God...not some fabricated tale to incite fear in women.

If someone was healed, it is the prayer of the righteous and the stripes that He bore. All glory goes to the Healer...not the hair.

I don't need to hear about the protection that comes from my uncut hair. My sister in law has never cut her hair, but my brother still dropped to the floor at the age of 46 years old. Another sister in law, uncut hair notwithstanding, lost her 20 year old son to diabetes.

Life happens, CC...it rains on the cut haired folks and the uncut folks. God is sovereign, and to take the credit for protection is to once again dismiss His divine hand and will in our lives.

For whatever it is worth, I am very seriously considering writing to Bro. Bernard, and if I do, I want to use your post as a jumping off point. He may not listen or regard what I have to say, but it's worth a try.

There needs to be a purging in the hearts of the people, but it cannot come until there is a purging in the hearts of it's leaders.

How they can stand back and do nothing is beyond my little thinking. Is it because of the reputation and stature of the one spouting this nonsense?

Are they afraid of ruffling feathers in the bonnet of the 'prophet' or his Amen crowd?

And for the record, I absolutely believe in miracles and great outpourings, but in relating the incidents, let us remember to give glory to Whom it is due, and keep the story true.

I'm finished with my rant...may heaven help us all! :foottap

[Barb]

If that's where you think the UPC is heading I won't mention Bro. Barnes, Bro. Bean or what transpired in Bro. Cole's ministry - oh, why not. One evening he asked God to stop the monsoon so people could make it to a Holy Ghost Crusade in the Phillipines. God did it. When rally started, he prayed again, only asking that it would ran. It rained.

Aquila, as far as Bin Laden being a staunch strict Muslim, there was porn and Viagra in his compound room. Bin Laden never strapped a bomb to himself.

If Bro. Stoneking lied, God will openly rebuke him if he refuses to repent. IF he lied. I'll err on Bro Stoneking's side for now.

Where Bro Stoneking said a woman who was raped was at fault, what message? When?Bro. Cole was a wonderfully true and powerful man of God, but none of the above allows for anyone saying that the 40 wives of Osama were ever Born Again.

[HolyFire]

Do you have a link?

http://youtu.be/HFbwhMgmnW4

BTW, I lived in Memphis area and went to several Singles Conferences where Bro Stoneking preached. Among other things I saw a cripple walk without help for the 1st time in years.

[Pressing-On]

Though you and I remain miles apart in many respects, I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this excellent post. I was discussing this very thing with one of my brothers this morning, and I called it, "small-man mentality."

Apostolic Pentecostals in general, not UPCI exclusively, have this mentality, and have for years.

It's the thinking that in order or to make myself seem more important or relevant I must add to the written Word, or say that some celebrity or whoever is "looking our way."

Either we believe what we say we believe or we don't. What we teach is biblical truth or it isn't, and it's just that simple.

I don't need to hear an off the wall claim of a Jewish revival or that the wives of a terrorist were all baptized to cement my belief in Jesus Name baptism.

Furthermore, I don't need to see a pic or video of someone waving their hair over an offering basket to keep me from cutting my hair.

I don't want to hear about how someone laid their hair on someone and they were healed. If I want sensationalism, I can watch a movie. My purpose in listening to a man or woman preach or teach behind a pulpit is in hearing the WORD of God...not some fabricated tale to incite fear in women.

If someone was healed, it is the prayer of the righteous and the stripes that He bore. All glory goes to the Healer...not the hair.

I don't need to hear about the protection that comes from my uncut hair. My sister in law has never cut her hair, but my brother still dropped to the floor at the age of 46 years old. Another sister in law, uncut hair notwithstanding, lost her 20 year old son to diabetes.

Life happens, CC...it rains on the cut haired folks and the uncut folks. God is sovereign, and to take the credit for protection is to once again dismiss His divine hand and will in our lives.

For whatever it is worth, I am very seriously considering writing to Bro. Bernard, and if I do, I want to use your post as a jumping off point. He may not listen or regard what I have to say, but it's worth a try.

There needs to be a purging in the hearts of the people, but it cannot come until there is a purging in the hearts of it's leaders.

How they can stand back and do nothing is beyond my little thinking. Is it because of the reputation and stature of the one spouting this nonsense?

Are they afraid of ruffling feathers in the bonnet of the 'prophet' or his Amen crowd?

And for the record, I absolutely believe in miracles and great outpourings, but in relating the incidents, let us remember to give glory to Whom it is due, and keep the story true.

I'm finished with my rant...may heaven help us all! :foottap

Excellent post, BARB!!! :thumbsup

[RandyWayne]

http://youtu.be/HFbwhMgmnW4

Thanks for the link.

I was able to watch about half of it.......

Watching some poor people try to order and eat while the church group continued "church".

Of course I get upset when I go out to eat and someone insists on saying grace and evangelizing to all the nearby tables in the process.

Sorry, I am sure some found this video to be uplifting... I found it very disturbing.

(But again, thanks for sending me the link!)

[Barb]

http://youtu.be/HFbwhMgmnW4

BTW, I lived in Memphis area and went to several Singles Conferences where Bro Stoneking preached. Among other things I saw a cripple walk without help for the 1st time in years.

Praise the Lord!

[RandyWayne]

http://youtu.be/HFbwhMgmnW4

BTW, I lived in Memphis area and went to several Singles Conferences where Bro Stoneking preached. Among other things I saw a cripple walk without help for the 1st time in years.

Have you ever seen someone go on stage with one leg shorter than the other and watch it be stretched out at one of these conferences?

By the way, was this person walking the next day without help? Or the day after?

[HolyFire]

Bro. Cole was a wonderfully true and powerful man of God, but none of the above allows for anyone saying that the 40 wives of Osama were ever Born Again.

Bro Stoneking was mentored and was contemporaries of those men. The 'HMH' issue was around before either Bro Cole or Bro Barnes passed. I know Bro Barnes didn't take objection to HMH, I heard it preached by another preacher behind the Minden pulpit by a preacher other than Bro Stoneking. Bro Barnes endorsed the message afterward.

As to Ali Baba and his 40 wives, let God sort it out. Bro Stoneking will fall on his face if he knowingly tells a lie he crafted or passes what he knows to be one. However, I'll side with Bro Stoneking until that time.

[Timmy]

Thanks for the link.

I was able to watch about half of it.......

Watching some poor people try to order and eat while the church group continued "church".

Of course I get upset when I go out to eat and someone insists on saying grace and evangelizing to all the nearby tables in the process.

Sorry, I am sure some found this video to be uplifting... I found it very disturbing.

(But again, thanks for sending me the link!)

Well, at least we can be certain that the tips were very good: the HS would have made sure of that! :lol

[Barb]

Have you ever seen someone go on stage with one leg shorter than the other and watch it be stretched out at one of these conferences?

By the way, was this person walking the next day without help? Or the day after?

I have, but it wasn't a LS meeting. It was the so-called Prophet Wesley Van Johnson, but that's another story.

And yes, the person was walking fine after, but 'they' tell me there are ways of manipulating that kind of thing.

Not that God can't do that...He can do anything!

It's just that the charlatans and whatnot have made skeptics of many, including this sister. :nod

[tv1a]

God has used me to heal people. Doesn't give me the license to make unsubstantiated claims or come up with whacked out theology.

http://youtu.be/HFbwhMgmnW4

BTW, I lived in Memphis area and went to several Singles Conferences where Bro Stoneking preached. Among other things I saw a cripple walk without help for the 1st time in years.

[Justin]

the man lost all credability with me when he started preaching and putting the blame of a woman being raped on the women.. plus the holy magic hair doctrine ... the man to me isnt annointed and while some times he can speak encouragment you must admit he would be better off to stick to the word instead of bringing in lies. the fact is many things that come from him are well, lets just say. off...

this is one band wagon i was glad to get off from.

I'm still interested in getting the audio clip for this claim.

[Cindy]

A lot of things can be faked on both sides of this.

[RandyWayne]

I have, but it wasn't a LS meeting. It was the so-called Prophet Wesley Van Johnson, but that's another story.

And yes, the person was walking fine after, but 'they' tell me there are ways of manipulating that kind of thing.

Not that God can't do that...He can do anything!

It's just that the charlatans and whatnot have made skeptics of many, including this sister. :nod

Of course I ask about the leg lengthening thing because it is still VERY common during healing services and one of the simpler "miracles" to fake. For someone to still use that technique would be like an evangelist using the "magical linking rings" to prove that God can trans mutate metal to allow one solid to pass through another.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Wo9xWfrpL._SL500_SS500_.jpg

[Barb]

Bro Stoneking was mentored and was contemporaries of those men. The 'HMH' issue was around before either Bro Cole or Bro Barnes passed. I know Bro Barnes didn't take objection to HMH, I heard it preached by another preacher behind the Minden pulpit by a preacher other than Bro Stoneking. Bro Barnes endorsed the message afterward.

As to Ali Baba and his 40 wives, let God sort it out. Bro Stoneking will fall on his face if he knowingly tells a lie he crafted or passes what he knows to be one. However, I'll side with Bro Stoneking until that time.

Respectfully, anyone, regardless of name or reputation that sides with something that is spouted as doctrine, when it is CLEARLY not, errs.

But giving these fine men the benefit of consideration for their years of ministry, they may have tried talking with him. Or perhaps he didn't spew the venom as harshly then as he does now.

I do wonder how can you say, "Let God sort it out," when so many believe this garbage and repeat it as fact? And then to side with him anyway?

Okay then...'nuff said on this subject...

[acerrak]

I'm still interested in getting the audio clip for this claim.

cant promise nothing but maybe i still have it.

[HolyFire]

Thanks for the link.

I was able to watch about half of it.......

Watching some poor people try to order and eat while the church group continued "church".

Of course I get upset when I go out to eat and someone insists on saying grace and evangelizing to all the nearby tables in the process.

Sorry, I am sure some found this video to be uplifting... I found it very disturbing.

(But again, thanks for sending me the link!)

I'm sorry you had a horrible childhood and you were dragged to church every 2-5 times a week, instead of a whore house or crack house. Some, like me, were raised by pot smoking bi-polar adulterers, and wife beating porno addicts - and by God's grace I found Him. It was in a racist Indy AP church, but I found Him. On top of that my step-mom, raised AP, was the worst witness of Christ and AP around. It was always about standards and 'losing the Holy Spirit' (what hogwash, losing the Spirit). I never heard about God's love or Calvary's cross. She was abusive, mentally, physically and spiritually.

I knew they were off on their racism (it was MS, not surprised), but 6 months after I moved out of necessity and found a balanced UPC church, on the AR side of Memphis that had all kinds. Over the course of a decade there God healed a lot of old wounds caused by the above people.

I'm sorry you are so traumtized you find seven people receiving the Holy Spirit baptism, (receiving a life changing, life altering experience no less) disturbing. I hate to tell you this (actually I don't) - it's getting more common!!! It's going to get even more common. God Himself was ok with it - seven people received the Holy Spirit!

I'm sorry if you're parents were abusive Randy, I really am. But you're anger, cynicism and bitterness gets to be a little much. I don't know you, but I wanted to offer some perspective. I hope you find a way past all the pain, I really do, but that video was God moving in the lives of others. That video was book of Acts.

[HolyFire]

About the leg thing - happened at BOTT to Pastor Shepard of Millington, TN as Bro. Stoneking walked past him. He testified about it at the next BOTT. He had to almost learn to walk again. Christ did the healing, Stoneking was the vessel. But no, God wouldn't do it that way. I heard it from Pastor Shepard's mouth!

[Timmy]

Of course I ask about the leg lengthening thing because it is still VERY common during healing services and one of the simpler "miracles" to fake. For someone to still use that technique would be like an evangelist using the "magical linking rings" to prove that God can trans mutate metal to allow one solid to pass through another.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Wo9xWfrpL._SL500_SS500_.jpg

I've seen it live and in person. In one case, the performer even did a little, um, how can I describe it? Kind of a pantomimed "tadaaaa" move: arms spread, palms up, head cocked to one side, with a little grin on his face that said "Thank you, thank you, and for my next trick..." Might as well have said, "And now I'll need a volunteer from the audience."

[RandyWayne]

About the leg thing - happened at BOTT to Pastor Shepard of Millington, TN as Bro. Stoneking walked past him. He testified about it at the next BOTT. He had to almost learn to walk again. Christ did the healing, Stoneking was the vessel. But no, God wouldn't do it that way. I heard it from Pastor Shepard's mouth!

And I can show you the wonderful miracle of the linking rings!

taa daa!

LOL

[RandyWayne]

I'm sorry you had a horrible childhood and you were dragged to church every 2-5 times a week, instead of a whore house or crack house. Some, like me, were raised by pot smoking bi-polar adulterers, and wife beating porno addicts - and by God's grace I found Him. It was in a racist Indy AP church, but I found Him. On top of that my step-mom, raised AP, was the worst witness of Christ and AP around. It was always about standards and 'losing the Holy Spirit' (what hogwash, losing the Spirit). I never heard about God's love or Calvary's cross. She was abusive, mentally, physically and spiritually.

So it is either/or?

I knew they were off on their racism (it was MS, not surprised), but 6 months after I moved out of necessity and found a balanced UPC church, on the AR side of Memphis that had all kinds. Over the course of a decade there God healed a lot of old wounds caused by the above people.

I'm sorry you are so traumtized you find seven people receiving the Holy Spirit baptism, (receiving a life changing, life altering experience no less) disturbing. I hate to tell you this (actually I don't) - it's getting more common!!! It's going to get even more common. God Himself was ok with it - seven people received the Holy Spirit!

After all, Lee Stoneking said so!
<Words in RED inserted by me for the sake of others reading>

I'm sorry if you're parents were abusive Randy, I really am. But you're anger, cynicism and bitterness gets to be a little much. I don't know you, but I wanted to offer some perspective. I hope you find a way past all the pain, I really do, but that video was God moving in the lives of others. That video was book of Acts.

<sigh>
Giving LS ANY benefit of the doubt is like giving the priestess of voodoo, Mama Bogwoshin (made up name) of New Orleans, credit for all the stuff she gets right!

[HolyFire]

And I can show you the wonderful miracle of the linking rings!

taa daa!

LOL

Wow, you can't even take testimony from the man who God healed. Skeptic.

[HolyFire]

<sigh>
Giving LS ANY benefit of the doubt is like giving the priestess of voodoo, Mama Bogwoshin (made up name) of New Orleans, credit for all the stuff she gets right!

How about former members of my church said so!!! They were there! Where do you think I heard it first!!! Not because LS said so!

The next thing you know you'll be saying Bro Stoneking faked the heart attack! What about Bro Jeff Arnold being clinically dead and God bringing him back with no brain damage? Is he a fake as well?

[acerrak]

How about former members of my church said so!!! They were there! Where do you think I heard it first!!! Not because LS said so!

The next thing you know you'll be saying Bro Stoneking faked the heart attack! What about Bro Jeff Arnold being clinically dead and God bringing him back with no brain damage? Is he a fake as well?

he wasnt clinically dead......... no o0ne pronounced him dead.....

[HolyFire]

he wasnt clinically dead......... no o0ne pronounced him dead.....

Sorry, trained medical personnel said he had no pulse for quite some time. No pulse = dead.

[The Lemon]

How bout instead of "taking sides", we just remain in Christ and allow the works to speak for themselves. It is a waste of energy to argue the validity of a miracle, and can be dangerously close to blashphemy to be overly critical.

In any case, regardless of a persons persona or reputation, the good works that they do (or any of us for that matter) are supposed to be to glorify our Father which is in heaven. Many folks tend to glorify a man or woman's annointing and gifts, almost to the point that they are infallible - whats more, people can tend to worship the person. In general terms it is like having a pastor relationship rather then a God relationship.

The major flaw in the pastor relationship is that IF the person falls, you tend to go down with them because your eyes were on the person and not where they should have been all along. Now I do not agree with being overly critical or synical, but way to many Christians are "taking sides", when that is not our job - no one needs you or I to defend them...god is more then capable of confirming a persons ministry.

Having said all of that...the gifts and call are without repentance - so, as hard as it may be to believe, a person can do marvelous works for God but not be in the will of God.

At any rate....

[acerrak]

Sorry, trained medical personnel said he had no pulse for quite some time. No pulse = dead.

tell me who the trained medical staff is that responded to him, was it people in the upci or was it the ambulance driver?


edit i just had to come back to it

Three trained professionals, namely Holley Carney, Jan Kinabrew, both registered nurses, and Cortt Chavis a trained combat lifesaver in the United States Army, were diligently applying their skills and trying to locate a pulse with no success. Five to ten minutes expired as his ashen, pallid face and cold body lay motionless on the floor

5-10 minutes yet no ONE started CPR................ if your medically trained you start cpr at the moment you detect no pulse, you do not spend 5 minutes let alone up to 10 looking for one

[Pressing-On]

How bout instead of "taking sides", we just remain in Christ and allow the works to speak for themselves. It is a waste of energy to argue the validity of a miracle, and can be dangerously close to blashphemy to be overly critical.

In any case, regardless of a persons persona or reputation, the good works that they do (or any of us for that matter) are supposed to be to glorify our Father which is in heaven. Many folks tend to glorify a man or woman's annointing and gifts, almost to the point that they are infallible - whats more, people can tend to worship the person. In general terms it is like having a pastor relationship rather then a God relationship.

The major flaw in the pastor relationship is that IF the person falls, you tend to go down with them because your eyes were on the person and not where they should have been all along. Now I do not agree with being overly critical or cynical, but way to many Christians are "taking sides", when that is not our job - no one needs you or I to defend them...god is more then capable of confirming a persons ministry.

Having said all of that...the gifts and call are without repentance - so, as hard as it may be to believe, a person can do marvelous works for God but not be in the will of God.

At any rate....

There is always a sane and logical way to live and assess things - this is it. :thumbsup

[RandyWayne]

How about former members of my church said so!!! They were there! Where do you think I heard it first!!! Not because LS said so!

The next thing you know you'll be saying Bro Stoneking faked the heart attack! What about Bro Jeff Arnold being clinically dead and God bringing him back with no brain damage? Is he a fake as well?

Funny you would bring that up......

No, I don't believe he faked a heart attack, but in LSings world a bad case of the cold would most likely turn into "And I was dead for 34 hours and my body was even said to start stinking" -said in his trademark New Castrati lisp.

In this last message posted here (which I made about 1/3 of the way through) he mentioned even seeing God's Hands in a photo oh him "dead", say He was "holding my head".

[jediwill83]

Look...I attend the church where Jeff Arnold died....had 3 er nurses a doctor and a flight medic there...im sure cpr was started...but the point isn't whether or not cpr happened...the point is that he was without a pulse and he came back.

[newlifeprophet]

Im not taking sides in this.. but do ANY of you know Lee Stoneking personally? A man can give an opinion if he so pleases.. but a man that goes around lying isnt a christian.. he is a sinner. God does not use sinners.. period. Before anyone starts taking the bible out of context with the gifts and callings being without repentance.. that simply means God hasnt left you, but his favor and use of you make no mistake, has. God is not the author of confusion. Backbiting does no one any good. Ive been in the apostolic pentecostal church for 27 years and personally conclude that a great majority of our people are three quarters backslidden. We should probably discuss the people who are doing nothing for God.

[HolyFire]

Look...I attend the church where Jeff Arnold died....had 3 er nurses a doctor and a flight medic there...im sure cpr was started...but the point isn't whether or not cpr happened...the point is that he was without a pulse and he came back.

I am sure I heard the medic was doing CPR (the guy).

It's sad that when there is a legitimate miracle you have to have three pieces of paper from nine different doctors and 76 pictures before a lot of Spirit filled people will believe. Sad and indictment.

Will, thanks for filling us in.

[SiblingRevelry]

http://youtu.be/HFbwhMgmnW4

BTW, I lived in Memphis area and went to several Singles Conferences where Bro Stoneking preached. Among other things I saw a cripple walk without help for the 1st time in years.

OK. As someone who occasionally dines out, I would have been extremely unhappy to have my dinner interrupted with that racket. Whatever happened to "decently and in order" (1 Cor. 14:40)? Also, as a former waitress, I could see that mess really making my night more difficult than it needed to be and I wouldn't be having nice thoughts about the church people.

[CC1]

Though you and I remain miles apart in many respects, I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this excellent post. I was discussing this very thing with one of my brothers this morning, and I called it, "small-man mentality."

Apostolic Pentecostals in general, not UPCI exclusively, have this mentality, and have for years.

It's the thinking that in order or to make myself seem more important or relevant I must add to the written Word, or say that some celebrity or whoever is "looking our way."

Either we believe what we say we believe or we don't. What we teach is biblical truth or it isn't, and it's just that simple.

I don't need to hear an off the wall claim of a Jewish revival or that the wives of a terrorist were all baptized to cement my belief in Jesus Name baptism.

Furthermore, I don't need to see a pic or video of someone waving their hair over an offering basket to keep me from cutting my hair.

I don't want to hear about how someone laid their hair on someone and they were healed. If I want sensationalism, I can watch a movie. My purpose in listening to a man or woman preach or teach behind a pulpit is in hearing the WORD of God...not some fabricated tale to incite fear in women.

If someone was healed, it is the prayer of the righteous and the stripes that He bore. All glory goes to the Healer...not the hair.

I don't need to hear about the protection that comes from my uncut hair. My sister in law has never cut her hair, but my brother still dropped to the floor at the age of 46 years old. Another sister in law, uncut hair notwithstanding, lost her 20 year old son to diabetes.

Life happens, CC...it rains on the cut haired folks and the uncut folks. God is sovereign, and to take the credit for protection is to once again dismiss His divine hand and will in our lives.

For whatever it is worth, I am very seriously considering writing to Bro. Bernard, and if I do, I want to use your post as a jumping off point. He may not listen or regard what I have to say, but it's worth a try.

There needs to be a purging in the hearts of the people, but it cannot come until there is a purging in the hearts of it's leaders.

How they can stand back and do nothing is beyond my little thinking. Is it because of the reputation and stature of the one spouting this nonsense?

Are they afraid of ruffling feathers in the bonnet of the 'prophet' or his Amen crowd?

And for the record, I absolutely believe in miracles and great outpourings, but in relating the incidents, let us remember to give glory to Whom it is due, and keep the story true.

I'm finished with my rant...may heaven help us all! :foottap

Barb,

A very highly respected UPC official is a friend of mine from Bible College days. We are not as close as we were decades ago and only see each other every few years. I last saw him in 2010 and broached the RRH magic hair subject. We got interrupted before we could really discuss it but in the minute or so he had to respond he seemed oblivous of anything wrong being taught and rattled off RR's key scripture. I hated we did not have time to discuss it in depth but I was very surprised that he was surprised there was any controversey over her teachings. He is avery smart person and a good man.

For any criticism of it to do any good it needs to come from folks like you who are in their group and who do believe the doctrine of uncut hair. Outside criticism just looks like people who do not believe the uncut hair doctrine casting stones.

[SiblingRevelry]

I am sure I heard the medic was doing CPR (the guy).

It's sad that when there is a legitimate miracle you have to have three pieces of paper from nine different doctors and 76 pictures before a lot of Spirit filled people will believe. Sad and indictment.

Will, thanks for filling us in.

Give how many faith-promoting lies I was told in my years in church, more than a tiny bit of skepticism is in order for me. If people were scrupulously honest about the truth I wouldn't feel like this. Problem is, the truth doesn't usually make for spellbinding pulpit pounding.

[rgcraig]

Though you and I remain miles apart in many respects, I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this excellent post. I was discussing this very thing with one of my brothers this morning, and I called it, "small-man mentality."

Apostolic Pentecostals in general, not UPCI exclusively, have this mentality, and have for years.

It's the thinking that in order or to make myself seem more important or relevant I must add to the written Word, or say that some celebrity or whoever is "looking our way."

Either we believe what we say we believe or we don't. What we teach is biblical truth or it isn't, and it's just that simple.

I don't need to hear an off the wall claim of a Jewish revival or that the wives of a terrorist were all baptized to cement my belief in Jesus Name baptism.

Furthermore, I don't need to see a pic or video of someone waving their hair over an offering basket to keep me from cutting my hair.

I don't want to hear about how someone laid their hair on someone and they were healed. If I want sensationalism, I can watch a movie. My purpose in listening to a man or woman preach or teach behind a pulpit is in hearing the WORD of God...not some fabricated tale to incite fear in women.

If someone was healed, it is the prayer of the righteous and the stripes that He bore. All glory goes to the Healer...not the hair.

I don't need to hear about the protection that comes from my uncut hair. My sister in law has never cut her hair, but my brother still dropped to the floor at the age of 46 years old. Another sister in law, uncut hair notwithstanding, lost her 20 year old son to diabetes.

Life happens, CC...it rains on the cut haired folks and the uncut folks. God is sovereign, and to take the credit for protection is to once again dismiss His divine hand and will in our lives.

For whatever it is worth, I am very seriously considering writing to Bro. Bernard, and if I do, I want to use your post as a jumping off point. He may not listen or regard what I have to say, but it's worth a try.

There needs to be a purging in the hearts of the people, but it cannot come until there is a purging in the hearts of it's leaders.

How they can stand back and do nothing is beyond my little thinking. Is it because of the reputation and stature of the one spouting this nonsense?

Are they afraid of ruffling feathers in the bonnet of the 'prophet' or his Amen crowd?

And for the record, I absolutely believe in miracles and great outpourings, but in relating the incidents, let us remember to give glory to Whom it is due, and keep the story true.

I'm finished with my rant...may heaven help us all! :foottap

CC1 stiring the pot at WEC!!!

Barb, I agree with you and think you need to follow your heart on this!

[HolyFire]

I'm withdrawing my statement about Bro Barnes endorsing HMH for the moment. I need to find my CD with the message. I am pretty sure that Bro Barnes took the pulpit and said something to the effect 'We've heard from the Lord tonight.' afterward the message.

[BroJoe]

....and now "8 people got the baptism of the holy ghost at a Cracker barrel!"

I'm actually really close to someone who was at that cracker barrel. Let me assure you, it happened. She posted video of it happening. It was at one of the yearly Single's Conferences they do at Bro. Black's Church in TN.

[CC1]

I'm actually really close to someone who was at that cracker barrel. Let me assure you, it happened. She posted video of it happening. It was at one of the yearly Single's Conferences they do at Bro. Black's Church in TN.

I don't know anybody who is denying the Cracker Barrell thing happened. There was video of it right afterwards I think somebody took on a cell phone.

It was not clear what the end results where as the video was not that long so I don't know if anybody was converted, spoke in tongues (other than the group from the church), etc.

[BroJoe]

I don't know anybody who is denying the Cracker Barrell thing happened. There was video of it right afterwards I think somebody took on a cell phone.

It was not clear what the end results where as the video was not that long so I don't know if anybody was converted, spoke in tongues (other than the group from the church), etc.

Bro. Randy apparently does not believe and/or is skeptical of the event taking place as it was reported.

He also made this statement on the next page of this thread

I have no doubt that the people involved in the "Cracker Barrel Revival" think it really happened, but I have also seen people drunk out of their gourd after bar closing time who went out to eat -and actually thought they were being funny when they gave the waitress a hard time at the local Perkins.

There are a few videos posted regarding this incident. Yes, I believe no less than 3 waitresses recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost there at the restaurant. This is evidenced by the film. Pictures were taken with them afterwards as well.

As far as follow up, I'm not entirely sure what happened after they received the HG.

**EDIT**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFbwhMgmnW4

One of the clips.

[RandyWayne]

Bro. Randy apparently does not believe and/or is skeptical of the event taking place as it was reported.

He also made this statement on the next page of this thread



There are a few videos posted regarding this incident. Yes, I believe no less than 3 waitresses recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost there at the restaurant. This is evidenced by the film. Pictures were taken with them afterwards as well.

As far as follow up, I'm not entirely sure what happened after they received the HG.

**EDIT**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFbwhMgmnW4

One of the clips.

No, I am not saying that people from an emotionally charged service didn't spill into the restaurant and decide to keep having church. I did see the video (or half of it). I was attempting to say that I would have been embarrassed to have been part of that group had I been there. There is a time and a place (and a way!) to do everything. Having a UPC alter call in a restaurant is neither the time or the place.

I also noticed all the people very uncomfortably sitting around trying to order their food and eat.

[BroJoe]

No, I am not saying that people from an emotionally charged service didn't spill into the restaurant and decide to keep having church.

It started with the waitress. They didn't spill into the Restaurant speaking in tongues and rolling on the ground.


I did see the video (or half of it). I was attempting to say that I would have been embarrassed to have been part of that group had I been there.

Embarrassed to see someone receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? Public is the best place for someone to receive the Holy Ghost. We find out what happens when "Having Church" spills out into the open in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost.

There is a time and a place (and a way!) to do everything. Having a UPC alter call in a restaurant is neither the time or the place.

Who dictates when and where the Spirit of God is poured out? You? Me? Lee Stoneking? (By the way, Stoneking wasn't present at all for any of this)

Next time God wants to move in a restaurant and has the atmosphere to move in, I'll make sure to stop Him "Sorry big G, time and a place. Time and a place."

I also noticed all the people very uncomfortably sitting around trying to order their food and eat.

The only people in this restaurant at this time of night were Pentecostals (**EDIT** Or guests of Pentecostals). It is my understanding they stayed open late to accommodate the conference. If they were uncomfortable, they could have left. I'd rather deal with some unhappy customers than choke the Spirit of God.

[newlifeprophet]

Into the highways compelling them? If we did half as much to leave our worldly mindset and uplift our brethren the catholic whore church and the trinitarian harlots wouldnt be dominating the earth. We have hid away in shame and secrecy long enough. Hows that working btw?

[tv1a]

I sense a Montyt Python bit coming on.

he wasnt clinically dead......... no o0ne pronounced him dead.....

[RandyWayne]

I sense a Montyt Python bit coming on.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7FUAwB_PH38/TCPI4P4-qWI/AAAAAAAABE8/vZXymobVYrY/s1600/mp.jpg

[newlifeprophet]

Lol. Good fellowship here nonetheless

[RandyWayne]

Lol. Good fellowship here nonetheless

Most of us are one big happy family. :)

http://ogrelikesstuff.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/soap_sitcom.jpg

[CC1]

Most of us are one big happy family. :)

http://ogrelikesstuff.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/soap_sitcom.jpg

With this pic you are showing your age! I doubt anybody under 40 has a clue as to what it was.

[tv1a]

Hope you don't mind my random thoughts.

1. I have trained altar coaches. I wrote a book about altar coaching which is in the final editing stages. Even though I believe speaking in tongues is important, it is not as important as pentecostals make it out to be. Pentecostals emphasize water immersion and speaking in tongues over the most important thing Christ desires, repentance. Christ taught more about repentance than tongues and baptism. Pentecostals have reduced repentance to asking God to forgive sins so they can get you to speak in tongues. I've seen more people speak in tongues than repent. Jesus knew what was important. He said angels rejoice when one person repents. Pentecostals rejoice when someone speaks in tongues. Pentecostals have it backwards. Need proof? When is the last time your church or your district/organization had a repentance rally? It doesn't happen because one can't always see immediate results of repentance. Repentance is a lifestyle which enables a person to continue to walk in their faith.

2. I understand Randy Wayne's skepticism. It's a shame the hucksters have made it difficult for people to believe the supernatural can occur anywhere. I haven't watch the Cracker Barrel Revival, nor do I plan to. I can't help but think if things were really out of control, management would have stepped in and ask the group to tone it down. If I were in a restaurant and something like that was going on, I would think they were a bunch of foreigners with very pale skin.

3. It's a shame we have extreme pendulum swings. One side believes almost everything that's said and the other side which are skeptical about everything that is said. The best thing to do is test the spirits, and test them all the time. You may miss the one that's legitimate or latch on to the one that's a phone if you don't test the spirits on a case by case basis.

4. HolyFire mentioned TW Barnes supported the Magic Hair Theory because Barnes said the phrase "We heard from the Lord tonight". (paraphrase) I realize HF is checking his sources to make sure the accuracy of the statement. I wouldn't be surprised if the statement was made. If TW Barnes said that, it doesn't mean every word was from the Lord. TWB could have been talking about a certain segment of the sermon where it was evident God's presence began to shift.

[RandyWayne]

With this pic you are showing your age! I doubt anybody under 40 has a clue as to what it was.

Naw, most do not have any idea. I wish I could animate the picture and show them all wrestling like they did at the end of every episode. LOL

[RandyWayne]

2. I understand Randy Wayne's skepticism. It's a shame the hucksters have made it difficult for people to believe the supernatural can occur anywhere. I haven't watch the Cracker Barrel Revival, nor do I plan to. I can't help but think if things were really out of control, management would have stepped in and ask the group to tone it down. If I were in a restaurant and something like that was going on, I would think they were a bunch of foreigners with very pale skin.


The issue is is that the absolute worst person to claim that God heals, is someone who regularly saws women in half and then goes "Ta Da!" and restores them to a gasping audience. Who would trust David Copperfield if he suddenly proclaimed himself to be a healer?

And so someone like LS who regularly claims the supernatural miracles of God that surround him while embellishing every little thing that he either hears happen or happens to him is someone I will naturally doubt every thing that comes out of his mouth. In fact so much garbage comes out of his mouth that there is no sense in fact checking everything. One can only assume that is is all embellished to the point of being a fairy tale.

[tv1a]

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Trust, but verify is a great motto to live by.


The issue is is that the absolute worst person to claim that God heals, is someone who regularly saws women in half and then goes "Ta Da!" and restores them to a gasping audience. Who would trust David Copperfield if he suddenly proclaimed himself to be a healer?

And so someone like LS who regularly claims the supernatural miracles of God that surround him while embellishing every little thing that he either hears happen or happens to him is someone I will naturally doubt every thing that comes out of his mouth. In fact so much garbage comes out of his mouth that there is no sense in fact checking everything. One can only assume that is is all embellished to the point of being a fairy tale.

[BroJoe]

In regards to tv1a

Hello friend :). Allow me to comment upon your post.


1. I have trained altar coaches. I wrote a book about altar coaching which is in the final editing stages. Even though I believe speaking in tongues is important, it is not as important as pentecostals make it out to be.

I would agree that speaking in other tongues is important, in fact it is the initial evidence. But I don't think it's over, let's say, the fruit of the Spirit. I value charity over speaking in tongues for example.

Paul said it like this: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (1 Corinthians 13:1)

So, I would have to disagree with you, as a Pentecostal, that we make it out to be more important than repentance. David Bernard talked a little bit about this in an interview a few years back in that though we value and use tongues on a regular basis, it is not the focal point of our beliefs.

Pentecostals emphasize water immersion and speaking in tongues over the most important thing Christ desires, repentance.

I believe, and as far as I know my organization believes that true repentance is required before one should be baptized. Speaking in other tongues is the initial evidence of the indwelling of the Spirit.

Pentecostals have reduced repentance to asking God to forgive sins so they can get you to speak in tongues.

I fear you may be more correct on this. I cannot speak for other denominations or even other churches in my organization, but I teach and preach, my pastor teaches and preaches, that repentance is more than just "I'm sorry, and forgive me. Now fill me."

Jesus knew what was important. He said angels rejoice when one person repents. Pentecostals rejoice when someone speaks in tongues.

I rejoice in both! But again I do not believe we place more emphasis on speaking with other tongues than repentance.

Pentecostals have it backwards. Need proof? When is the last time your church or your district/organization had a repentance rally?

Is a repentance rally needed to live a repentant life?

Repentance is a lifestyle

Bingo! Well said!

I can't help but think if things were really out of control, management would have stepped in and ask the group to tone it down.

Lol, if I'm not mistaken, one of the managers received the HG as well.

It's a shame we have extreme pendulum swings. One side believes almost everything that's said and the other side which are skeptical about everything that is said. The best thing to do is test the spirits, and test them all the time. You may miss the one that's legitimate or latch on to the one that's a phone if you don't test the spirits on a case by case basis.

Amen

[jediwill83]

Im all for miracles in action and I desire to see them happen more and more but I don't feel that the truth needs to be stretched...God is God all by himself and He doesn't need and "help".

[tv1a]

DB is a brilliant individual. He may be right in a sense about tongues as a focal point. I heard Mark Jordan and other high ranking dignitaries sound the alarm stating the upci would lose their identity if standards weren't emphasized.

A huge misconception is repentance must happen before baptism and speaking in tongues. The Bible clearly shows the Acts 2:38 model doesn't have to be followed sequentially.

Repentance is required for salvation. It is not a stepping stone or a requirement for baptism or speaking in tongues.

In regards to tv1a

Hello friend :). Allow me to comment upon your post.



I would agree that speaking in other tongues is important, in fact it is the initial evidence. But I don't think it's over, let's say, the fruit of the Spirit. I value charity over speaking in tongues for example.

Paul said it like this: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (1 Corinthians 13:1)

So, I would have to disagree with you, as a Pentecostal, that we make it out to be more important than repentance. David Bernard talked a little bit about this in an interview a few years back in that though we value and use tongues on a regular basis, it is not the focal point of our beliefs.



I believe, and as far as I know my organization believes that true repentance is required before one should be baptized. Speaking in other tongues is the initial evidence of the indwelling of the Spirit.



I fear you may be more correct on this. I cannot speak for other denominations or even other churches in my organization, but I teach and preach, my pastor teaches and preaches, that repentance is more than just "I'm sorry, and forgive me. Now fill me."



I rejoice in both! But again I do not believe we place more emphasis on speaking with other tongues than repentance.



Is a repentance rally needed to live a repentant life?



Bingo! Well said!



Lol, if I'm not mistaken, one of the managers received the HG as well.



Amen

[acerrak]

Look...I attend the church where Jeff Arnold died....had 3 er nurses a doctor and a flight medic there...im sure cpr was started...but the point isn't whether or not cpr happened...the point is that he was without a pulse and he came back.

its always possible he had a pulse they just couldnt pick it up, expecially with people who have passed out or suffered a mild heart attack, however no such thing about cpr has been recorded, what was recorded is that they searched for 5-10 minutes for a pulse with out anyone stating Cpr.

[aegsm76]

This thread reminds me of a verse:

"The gifts and calling of God are without repentence"

[Timmy]

Well, at least we can be certain that the tips were very good: the HS would have made sure of that! :lol

The tips were really good. Right? Right??

[RandyWayne]

The tips were really good. Right? Right??

I am sure they were very generous.

I'm sure of it.....

Oh, who are we kidding.

http://www.freedomvillage.net/HTMLobj-16390/aniGif.gif

[The Lemon]

Couple things:

1. The gifts and callings being without repentance means that at one time a person obeyed and was consecrated and God bestowed gifts - those gifts are never taken back by God. For more teaching on this see Billy Cole's Preparation for Ministry Series.

2. You can't be half, three quarters etc. backslidden - this is pentecostal lingo at its worst...you are either backslidden or your not...there is no in between.

3. Doing anything for God does not secure anyone's salvation...if you could earn it He wouldn't have died on the cross.

4. We don't need to "discuss" anybody...if it is backbiting calling our Bro. Stoneking...then it is also backbiting to discuss folks who are "doing nothing for God"

5. Because we Apostolics LOVE to measure ourselves by ourselves...the definition of "doing nothing for God" is a broad as it is long.

Just sayin'

[Cindy]

Couple things:

1. The gifts and callings being without repentance means that at one time a person obeyed and was consecrated and God bestowed gifts - those gifts are never taken back by God. For more teaching on this see Billy Cole's Preparation for Ministry Series.

2. You can't be half, three quarters etc. backslidden - this is pentecostal lingo at its worst...you are either backslidden or your not...there is no in between.

3. Doing anything for God does not secure anyone's salvation...if you could earn it He wouldn't have died on the cross.

4. We don't need to "discuss" anybody...if it is backbiting calling our Bro. Stoneking...then it is also backbiting to discuss folks who are "doing nothing for God"

5. Because we Apostolics LOVE to measure ourselves by ourselves...the definition of "doing nothing for God" is a broad as it is long.

Just sayin'

:thumbsup

[newlifeprophet]

Lemon 1. You said what i said about the gifts and callings. 2. In the letters to the chur 5ches you will see differering levels of acceptance with God. 3. It is of FAITH so that it may be by grace.. and faith without WORKS is dead. 4. all acripture is hiven for correction and reproof.. even the parable of talents when God himself taught on this. 5… Being biblically apostolic is the only way to heaven. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so. The church is over run with false humility

[acerrak]

Lemon 1. You said what i said about the gifts and callings. 2. In the letters to the chur 5ches you will see differering levels of acceptance with God. 3. It is of FAITH so that it may be by grace.. and faith without WORKS is dead. 4. all acripture is hiven for correction and reproof.. even the parable of talents when God himself taught on this. 5… Being biblically apostolic is the only way to heaven. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so. The church is over run with false humility

you did ok until you got to 3

you cant take the scriptures that james spoke about and then try and marry them to what paul spoke about.

Paul is speaking of salvation and he goes into describing this very well in romans chapter 4 that all works are of a debt. and that one is justified and declared rightous at believing.

james on the other hand is talking about applying your faith, Not of salvation but showing and doing what you actually believe in. This is the brotherly love aspects.

4 is good

5, well the word apostolic is a very broad brush, catholics declare themselves apostolic, as would any believing christian that isnt in the oneness movement.

[The Lemon]

NLP - You totally lost me on points 4 & 5...yes all doctrine is profitable for reproof, but that has nothing to do with wanting to discuss folks who "do nothing for God" , and you made no mention of 'being apostolic", you were ranting about how much of the church is 3/4 backslidden.

False humility??? What in the world are you talking about??

I agree we need proof of our Faith, but it is wrong to teach or preach that we can earn, buy, or work our way into Heaven.

[newlifeprophet]

Ummm WORK out your own salvation with fear and trembling? Obedience is better than sacrifice? Without Holiness no man shall see the Lord? Where much is known much is required? We are laborers together with God? He that knoweth to do good snd doeth it not.. to him it is sin? Sins of comission and omission and zero sin will enter in. Grace is to enable you faith and works

[newlifeprophet]

Not saying one can save themselves without Christ and grace but because of Christ and grace we are to save ourselves from this untoward generation

[acerrak]

Ummm WORK out your own salvation with fear and trembling? Obedience is better than sacrifice? Without Holiness no man shall see the Lord? Where much is known much is required? We are laborers together with God? He that knoweth to do good snd doeth it not.. to him it is sin? Sins of comission and omission and zero sin will enter in. Grace is to enable you faith and works

your only Holy cause the Spirit of God is in you. Only god can seperate you,
You are perfected in Christ, you are made the rightousness of God through Christ.

Jesus atoned for all sin, your either born again or your not. One canot be born again multiple times. Your either sealed with the Spirit or your not.

Your either given the Spirit of adoption or you have not recieved it. Works based religion is a horrible life to live, you will be in and out of salvation on a daily bases. That is really a slap in the face to the power of the Cross. people who view scriptures in light of this dont understand grace and the power of it.

Cause all of your rightous deeds compared to God's is nothing but a womens minstral cycle rag. You cant save your self, you cant buy your salvation and the only way you can work it out is by believing in christ jesus to save you.

salvation was not yours it is the Lords, the redeemed of the Lord say so, not because of what they have done.... no no no but what Christ has done for them.

[newlifeprophet]

Acerrak: believe we are saying the same thing different ways. We are both talking about once in grace aleays in grace.. if we stay in grace

[tv1a]

How backslid is a woman who wears pants but doesn't cut her hair? 1/2, 2/3, 7/8?

[acerrak]

Acerrak: believe we are saying the same thing different ways. We are both talking about once in grace aleays in grace.. if we stay in grace

yes but remaining in grace is not soly based on your human efforts, if that was the case we would all still fail..

[acerrak]

How backslid is a woman who wears pants but doesn't cut her hair? 1/2, 2/3, 7/8?

hey why you bringing my wife into this... she is about as much of a apostate as i am to the upci, but doesnt mean she is backslidden, even though some in the org view it as much.

she was up at the alter praying for a woman who was having issues with addictions, we never met this person.

[newlifeprophet]

Tv1a: judge it based on the word. It may say somewhere that its not an abomination .. but im yet to see it.

[acerrak]

Tv1a: judge it based on the word. It may say somewhere that its not an abomination .. but im yet to see it.

pants skirts neither are a abomination, no ever looks at the scripture and how the jews interpreted it and used it. since clothing of the day was basically unisexual, meaning same design etc etc, this pertained to a woman wearing the levitical priestlt garments and armor. as these 2 according to the jewish custon was considered a abomination.

the tunics man and women wore back then was practically the same shape and form some times only seperated by color if they had the money todo so.

Has nothing dealing with pants, they make pants for women and sale them in the women section.. so it pertaineth to a women.... churches making legalism is what it is. people need to study things out.

expecially if you want to understand the customs of the day and where they got it from

[BroJoe]

A huge misconception is repentance must happen before baptism and speaking in tongues. The Bible clearly shows the Acts 2:38 model doesn't have to be followed sequentially

Repentance and Baptism cannot be separated. Repentance is necessary to effect remission of sins. John the Baptist baptized "with water unto repentance"

Jesus, in Luke 24:47, mentioned that repentance and remissions of sins should be preached. After that, Peter stood up in Acts 2:38 and preached Repentance then baptizing for the remission of sins.

Baptizing someone before they have repented is nothing more than taking a bath.

Remember repent in the Greek means to "Change one's mind"

If they have not changed their minds about their lifestyle, their standing with God, why would they get baptized?


Repentance is required for salvation.
Amen

[BroJoe]

pants skirts neither are a abomination, no ever looks at the scripture and how the jews interpreted it and used it. since clothing of the day was basically unisexual, meaning same design etc etc, this pertained to a woman wearing the levitical priestlt garments and armor. as these 2 according to the jewish custon was considered a abomination.

the tunics man and women wore back then was practically the same shape and form some times only seperated by color if they had the money todo so.

Has nothing dealing with pants, they make pants for women and sale them in the women section.. so it pertaineth to a women.... churches making legalism is what it is. people need to study things out.

expecially if you want to understand the customs of the day and where they got it from

Would you wear a skirt?

[RandyWayne]

Would you wear a skirt?

I know your not asking me, but to answer your question.....

If they ever became popular here in the US and became a men's fashion statement, sure.

http://www.mistythicket.com/ebay/scottish_great_kilt_tartan_01.jpg

In fact we went out the other night and a group of men at a table near us were all wearing kilts. No one looked twice.

[RandyWayne]

But here is a question for YOU:

Would you ever wear a pair of jeans bought in the woman's section?

[Sam]

you did ok until you got to 3

you cant take the scriptures that james spoke about and then try and marry them to what paul spoke about.

Paul is speaking of salvation and he goes into describing this very well in romans chapter 4 that all works are of a debt. and that one is justified and declared rightous at believing.

james on the other hand is talking about applying your faith, Not of salvation but showing and doing what you actually believe in. This is the brotherly love aspects.

4 is good

5, well the word apostolic is a very broad brush, catholics declare themselves apostolic, as would any believing christian that isnt in the oneness movement.

in other words,
we are justified by faith only in God's sight and we are justified by our works in the sight of humans. Only God can see the heart. Those around us can see what he heart is like by the way we walk, talk, and act

[BroJoe]

I know your not asking me, but to answer your question.....

If they ever became popular here in the US and became a men's fashion statement, sure.

http://www.mistythicket.com/ebay/scottish_great_kilt_tartan_01.jpg

In fact we went out the other night and a group of men at a table near us were all wearing kilts. No one looked twice.


One of my best friends is from Scotland, in fact her dad (also from Scotland) is our Music Pastor at my local Church. I consider them skirts (but I never say that in front of them hahaha)

But, the use for a kilt was created in the 16th century (if I'm not mistaken) and was used to be able to pull it up and over your head as a cloak or a blanket.

The skirts that women wear, I doubt could be used in such a fashion.

[BroJoe]

But here is a question for YOU:

Would you ever wear a pair of jeans bought in the woman's section?

Absolutely not. They wouldn't fit right. The waist tend to be a bit smaller, while the hips are made a bit wider to conform to the body type of a woman. Pants in a women's section of a store would look a little odd on me.

[BroJoe]

in other words,
we are justified by faith only in God's sight and we are justified by our works in the sight of humans. Only God can see the heart. Those around us can see what he heart is like by the way we walk, talk, and act

Amen.

[houston]

how backslid is a woman who wears pants but doesn't cut her hair? 1/2, 2/3, 7/8?

roflol

[CC1]

How backslid is a woman who wears pants but doesn't cut her hair? 1/2, 2/3, 7/8?

You jest but there are some strange things in Pentecost! About 20 years ago one of my nieces was dating a guy from some independent OP church in Texas and their church was very strong on the uncut hair doctrine but all of the women wore tons of jewelry!

[hometown guy]

No, I am not saying that people from an emotionally charged service didn't spill into the restaurant and decide to keep having church. I did see the video (or half of it). I was attempting to say that I would have been embarrassed to have been part of that group had I been there. There is a time and a place (and a way!) to do everything. Having a UPC alter call in a restaurant is neither the time or the place.

I also noticed all the people very uncomfortably sitting around trying to order their food and eat.

Ya a time and place.... I did not watch the video but I believe there is a time and place for a " altar call " and I'm sure where people are trying to eat is not the place.. I doubt Peter and the first church would also agree and not interrupt someones dinner....... Or feast... :happydance

[Praxeas]

One of my best friends is from Scotland, in fact her dad (also from Scotland) is our Music Pastor at my local Church. I consider them skirts (but I never say that in front of them hahaha)

But, the use for a kilt was created in the 16th century (if I'm not mistaken) and was used to be able to pull it up and over your head as a cloak or a blanket.

The skirts that women wear, I doubt could be used in such a fashion.
You realize men ALWAYS wore "skirts" or robes until recently, right?

And Scottish men wore nothing underneath :treadmill:

[BroJoe]

Yes and yes. Love you bro.

[acerrak]

Would you wear a skirt?

depends on the time and the culture. if we was back in Jesus day we would be wearing tunics, if we was raised in the hills of scotland we would be in kilts.

so again you have to do what i said in my earlier post and study out the way things was interpreted. Infact it wasnt until babylonian captivity that jewish rabbies did not want women wearing trousers. why the change? Because they was taking on the form of there captives. this also included veils or head covering for women.

[BroJoe]

depends on the time and the culture. if we was back in Jesus day we would be wearing tunics, if we was raised in the hills of scotland we would be in kilts.

so again you have to do what i said in my earlier post and study out the way things was interpreted. Infact it wasnt until babylonian captivity that jewish rabbies did not want women wearing trousers. why the change? Because they was taking on the form of there captives. this also included veils or head covering for women.

Peace, my friend. Love you.

[acerrak]

:hug3Peace, my friend. Love you.

[Sister Alvear]

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples.....(you know the rest)

[BrokenSpirit]

I have, but it wasn't a LS meeting. It was the so-called Prophet Wesley Van Johnson, but that's another story.

And yes, the person was walking fine after, but 'they' tell me there are ways of manipulating that kind of thing.

Not that God can't do that...He can do anything!

It's just that the charlatans and whatnot have made skeptics of many, including this sister. :nod

Wesley Van Johnson, I know him well. He does the leg trick all the time. It's a favorite of the Caribbean churches he visits and hold revivals at.

http://wesleyvanjohnson.com

Read about him and believe what the woman wrote about him, he's the shadiest type of prophet.

[navygoat1998]

the trinitarian harlots wouldnt be dominating the earth.

You guys let those Trinitarian harlots on this board? Why I never I'm out of here. Oh wait thats me!:heeheehee

[Sam]

You guys let those Trinitarian harlots on this board? Why I never I'm out of here. Oh wait thats me!:heeheehee

well, I've been called worse than a trinitarian harlot by good conservative OP's
can't you just feel the love?

:heeheehee

[Sam]

With this pic you are showing your age! I doubt anybody under 40 has a clue as to what it was.

I'm 74 and have no idea who or what it was